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Split tickets: Now airline passengers follow our lead!

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flymo

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I get a page not found when using that link. You need an 'l' on the end of the htm, i.e html to make it work.

Interestingly enough, Schipol levied a ticket tax of between 11 to 45 Euro in 2008 then discontinued it in 2009 as the airport lost huge numbers of passengers to Germany and Belgium. If I were flying UK to Australia as mentioned in the article I would certainly look to use another routing to save a few quid.

I wonder if Eurostar or even the ferries will capitalize on this and provide special fares for connecting air passengers as an incentive to use the train and deprive some airlines, and indeed airports, of some income.
 

yorkie

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"The initial leg would incur £48 in taxes, and the second leg – as long as it was not connecting – would be tax-free, saving a family a possible £632 in taxes."

Does anyone know what "not connecting" actually means in this context?

In a railway context if a train was not a 'valid connection' you would not be covered in the event of delays. So if this is something similar, it sounds like it could be risky...?

Airlines don't have a Worldwide Condition of Carriage (or similiar!) that states you can combine multiple tickets for one journey, do they? So passengers are unlikely to be covered for the rest of their journey on different tickets in the event of delays.

This is different to our railway ticketing structure, which protects many of the common conditions that existed under BR.

I think that combining tickets on airlines may be a lot riskier than doing the same on UK railways.
 

Mr Spock

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Not sure exactly what "not connecting" means but someone like Air France will fly you from Birmingham - Paris and then from Paris to say Cape Town which I presume is classed as "one trip".

If you want to try unconnected flights try Tiger Airlines in Australia. Watched a programme yesterday and this airline does not do "through" flights so 2 (seperate) families had booked from A-B and then from B-C with about 2-3 hours at B. There is a minimum check-in time of 45 mins which should have been ok but the first flight was rescheduled so that they then had insufficient time to meet the minimum time. Tigers response was not to let them get on the B-C flight as they had not allowed themselves sufficient time to make the connection even though it was Tiger that had changed the time of the first flight (not sure when this change took place).

They offered to put them on the next flight for free which was in 3 days time!
 

button_boxer

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"The initial leg would incur £48 in taxes, and the second leg – as long as it was not connecting – would be tax-free, saving a family a possible £632 in taxes."

Does anyone know what "not connecting" actually means in this context?

I presume it means you have to collect your bags and take them to the check in desk to check them back in for the second flight, rather than the airline transferring them from one plane to the other directly. Starting from the UK this probably doesn't add that much time to the connection compared to connecting airside, given you still have to go through the same passport control and security in both cases. If the UK were a full part of Schengen then it would be a much bigger penalty as you'd be adding an extra security screening check that you wouldn't otherwise need to undergo.
 

flymo

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Info on whether a flight is deemed to be 'connected' or not. Sections 4.1 to 4.4
of this document

And you thought the rail ticketing system was complicated.:D:D

As much as I said would like to save a few quid here and there, after reading this I'm not sure I could hang around an airport for over 24 hours. Especially a family with kids are going to find it a bit of a pain.
 

Chris999999

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But how will they know - especially if I use different airlines?

Probably a bit off topic for a rail forum but:

If for example I book with BA and fly London to Paris, and then book with Air France from Paris to New York and the flights are less than 24 hours apart, how will anyone know to charge me the APD surcharge on the Air France Paris to New York flight?

Anyway if I go by train to Paris then there will definitely be no APD to pay from Paris.
 

button_boxer

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Info on whether a flight is deemed to be 'connected' or not. Sections 4.1 to 4.4
of this document

And you thought the rail ticketing system was complicated.:D:D

Section 4.4:

The connected flights must be detailed on the same ticket or conjunction tickets to qualify for the exemption. Tickets can only be regarded as conjunction tickets if:

a. they are in one booklet, or

b. where they are in separate booklets:
- each refers to the other and states that they are to be read in conjunction, or
- there is a summary of the flights constituting the passengers journey including the flights in question.

c. where the tickets are purchased online, they are purchased at the same time through the same portal.

So booked separately = not connected, regardless of the stopover time. The opposite of the rail situation.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Isn't there a risk that a discounted Eurostar ticket specifically for connecting air passengers might be deemed by the Treasury to be an extension of an air ticket originating in the UK and therefore taxable?

But certainly on the longer distance flights the cost of the normal Eurostar tickets is well under the tax level, so as long as lots of connecting time - several hours - was allowed, the passengers should be OK...
 

Chris999999

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Section 4.4:



So booked separately = not connected, regardless of the stopover time. The opposite of the rail situation.

So that is easy then. If you want to fly long distance, book to Paris or Amsterdam etc and then book another flight to your destination and you only pay the short distance APD. It is going to be good business for these and other airports and of course Eurostar and other European carriers. With through trains from St Pancras to more destinations likely to become available in the near future business will grow very quickly.
 

jamesontheroad

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If you want to try unconnected flights try Tiger Airlines in Australia. Watched a programme yesterday and this airline does not do "through" flights so 2 (seperate) families had booked from A-B and then from B-C with about 2-3 hours at B. There is a minimum check-in time of 45 mins which should have been ok but the first flight was rescheduled so that they then had insufficient time to meet the minimum time. Tigers response was not to let them get on the B-C flight as they had not allowed themselves sufficient time to make the connection even though it was Tiger that had changed the time of the first flight (not sure when this change took place).

No need to go to Australia. This is exactly what would happen with Ryanair or Easyjet here. Only unlike Tiger, they wouldn't put you on a flight a few days later!
 

starrymarkb

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Easyjet might, Ryanair would be a case of "have a nice day"

I think ryanair even say they are not liable if you miss any connection through their lateness in their T&Cs
 

b0b

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Airlines don't have a Worldwide Condition of Carriage (or similiar!) that states you can combine multiple tickets for one journey, do they? So passengers are unlikely to be covered for the rest of their journey on different tickets in the event of delays.

I wouldn't be shocked if Air France, for example, would sell 2 "unconnected" tickets through Paris, but would allow you catch the next reasonable flight out of Paris for a small fee much less than the APD should you miss the "unconnected" flight ....
 

stut

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I presume it means you have to collect your bags and take them to the check in desk to check them back in for the second flight, rather than the airline transferring them from one plane to the other directly. Starting from the UK this probably doesn't add that much time to the connection compared to connecting airside, given you still have to go through the same passport control and security in both cases. If the UK were a full part of Schengen then it would be a much bigger penalty as you'd be adding an extra security screening check that you wouldn't otherwise need to undergo.

It depends on the airline's policy.

Basically, your bags are the responsibility of the first airline you check in with. By IATA rules, they are only obliged to check your luggage in as far as you are ticketed in the PNR for the flight you're checking in with (or less, if there are specific rules about re-checking for customs at international to domestic connections). They can check it through as far as you like out of goodwill - and some will do this for the same airline and alliance/codeshare partners - but most won't, these days. Since the advent of e-ticketing, the cost to airlines of checking bags through has been easily identified, and it's one they'd rather avoid if you haven't paid them for it.

The same applies for accommodating you in case of misconnections, whether due to late arrival of an incoming flight, or delays at immigration or baggage reclaim. Airlines are not liable for consequential loss, and so are at no obligation to reaccommodate you if you miss a split flight. Again, they may do so out of goodwill (or if you have a flexible ticket - although then, it's subject to capacity) for same-carrier or alliance partner flights, but this, again, is getting rarer.

Most (but not all) low-cost airlines will not issue any connecting tickets, so the above is always the case for them.

Another technique for saving on flights is to use a connecting, initial flight into a hub, where you would have flown from the hub directly. For example, London to Toronto on BA is generally more expensive than, say, Milan - London - Toronto on BA. Now, bear in mind that if you miss any sector of a flight, all subsequent sectors are cancelled, so you do need to physically start in Milan. However, book a stopover, make a weekend of it, and you may find a nicely discounted ticket with a cheap weekend away into the bargain. If you have time on your hands, you can do the connection in London the same day and save on the departure tax, too (departure tax is not payable on connections of under 24 hours).

The other point to remember is that by splitting a ticket, you may have to enter that country in order to connect. While that doesn't really matter for an EU national on an EU connection, it can get quite complicated. Plus, somewhere like Schiphol (mentioned above) is designed for connecting - you just walk from gate to gate. Having to go out and in again is a significant detour.

Personally, I've done the split flight thing a few times, although in my case for air miles redemptions, where I can save on the taxes, fees and fuel surcharges that you have to pay. The most recent example was getting a very cheap Air Berlin flight to Duesseldorf (I think it was about £20 all-in) with a Rail+Fly ticket. Had a potter about there and Cologne on the ICE trains, left from Frankfurt in the evening. Saved about £150 by doing so, but there was a gap of many, many hours between the flights.

Train connections do work too - you can get particularly cheap tickets to Disneyland Paris on Eurostar connections via Lille (not the direct train!) and all of these trains stop at Roissy-CDG. Again, though, you need to leave contingency time, as the connection isn't guaranteed. Dublin is another good departure point for cheap taxes - and it has good connecting flights to the USA and Canada (with immigration pre-clearance to the USA, which is a great benefit).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone know what "not connecting" actually means in this context?

A connection is a flight booked on the same PNR (passenger name record), with a gap of under 24 hours between arrival and departure.

As mentioned above, you cannot assume a non-connecting flight will be honoured in case of a misconnect, even with the same airline - and not just the low-cost airlines, either.

Worse still, if the second portion of the flight is a return flight and/or has another connection, you will be treated as a no-show, and all subsequent sectors can be cancelled according to ticket conditions. If it's a non-flexible ticket, you get nothing back (well, you may get taxes back, less a hefty admin fee...)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wouldn't be shocked if Air France, for example, would sell 2 "unconnected" tickets through Paris, but would allow you catch the next reasonable flight out of Paris for a small fee much less than the APD should you miss the "unconnected" flight ....

It's not in classic airlines' interests to do so. They make most of their money off full-fare tickets from (usually) business travellers. If they allow people on flexible tickets to change tickets at a far smaller fee, they're eating into their most profitable area.

easyJet is a rare example of a European airline that will allow same-day changes/standby at a fee. Even then, it's restricted.

US airlines tend to do same day standby/changes at a fee more readily, but again, these are subject to many restrictions, such as a 3.5h limit. Which is fine if your destination has a flight every few hours, but if it doesn't, you're SOL.
 

b0b

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It's not in classic airlines' interests to do so. They make most of their money off full-fare tickets from (usually) business travellers. If they allow people on flexible tickets to change tickets at a far smaller fee, they're eating into their most profitable area.

The point is that it's in Air France's interest to have you fly with them through Paris, rather than take the direct British Airways flight from Heathrow... and they can significantly undercut the BA price due to this (crazy) tax.
 

flymo

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Even including this new tax, in a lot of cases it is still a lot cheaper to fly from London than Europe.

For example, using Paris and Air France as mentioned previously, I chose 5 destinations and checked the prices from London on BA and the prices from Paris on Air France as a comparison. All outward flights Feb 3, return Feb 17, 2011. All flights economy with the cheapest selection used.

Check your own destinations if you wish.

BA
London - New York JFK Ticket £88 + taxes £230 = £318
London - Toronto Ticket £181 + taxes £227 = £408
London - Singapore Ticket £394 + taxes £258 = £652
London - Istanbul Ticket £70 + taxes £73 = £143
London - Johannesburg Ticket £361 + taxes £268 = £629

AF
Paris - New York JFK Ticket £219 + taxes £237 = £456
Paris - Toronto Ticket £367 + taxes £234 = £601
Paris - Singapore Ticket £622 + taxes £232 = £854
Paris - Istanbul Ticket £190 + taxes £104 = £294
Paris - Johannesburg Ticket £569 + taxes £252 = £821

There is a vast difference in the prices from London due to the large amount of competition that doesn't appear as much in Europe.

I'm not saying it's always cheaper to fly from London or always more expensive to fly from Paris but even with this new tax, flying from Europe may save a few quid in APD taxes but the prices of flights may still be more expensive.
 
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Railjet

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Sorry for this being a bit off topic, but (a) it is related and (b) air travellers amongst you might find it useful.

Hope the link works. Not sure about copyright re pasting the text but the principal is - to save the 55% rise in Air Passenger Duty which starts today, split your air ticket.. : )

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/t...enger-duty-avoid-it-by-hopping-to-Europe.html

The airline business is way ahead of the railways in ticketing tricks, believe me, mainly because of the international options it presents.

A connection is a flight booked on the same PNR (passenger name record), with a gap of under 24 hours between arrival and departure

The airline industry being what it is, this doesn't always apply, although it is the default rule. In the US, for example, I think a connecting flight is generally within 6 hours - although this is not relevant to UK departure tax, it does impinge on the availability of certain fares.
 
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