Southern Prosecutions Customer Service

[NathanPrior]

Now my £20 penalty fare is sposed to be paid to them today, however I've sent several emails to them asking how to pay it to the office as the payment methods were not stated on the letter and still havn't had any response. Hardly good customer service is it if they don't tell you how to pay the fare. At least if they try and prosecute me further for not paying it on time, I can just point out my email to them.

 

[First class]

What if I am unable to pay the full amount of the Penalty
Fare on the spot?

If you do not have the full amount, then you will be allowed
to make a part payment. You are required by law to provide
your full name and address at this time and you then have
21 days to pay the remaining amount of the Penalty Fare.
This can be done by sending a cheque or postal order to the
payment address on the Penalty Fare notice. Please include
the Penalty Fare notice with your payment and do not
send cash through the post. Failure to provide an Authorised
Collector, when asked to do so, with your current name and
address, or giving a false name and/or address, is a criminal
offence and will lead to prosecution.


You won't be prosecuted over an unpaid Penalty Fare. It goes to a commercial debt collector. How much work do you think a DCA will put in to chase you for £20 when they pay about £5 for the debt??

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...tNwHRT826_mdLMrcg&sig2=xKskfGHPNkhmB8LWf7ytbg

 

[NathanPrior]

This is the letter I recieved:

"Thank you for your letter.I would give the option at this stage of paying what would have been a Penalty Fare to conlude this matter as your ticket was not valid. This would be in the sum of £20 and should be made to my office within 14 days"

See, not stating how to pay it...bit of a problem there

 

[First class]

This is the letter I recieved:

"Thank you for your letter.I would give the option at this stage of paying what would have been a Penalty Fare to conlude this matter as your ticket was not valid. This would be in the sum of £20 and should be made to my office within 14 days"

See, not stating how to pay it...bit of a problem there

Send them a cheque or postal order made out to Southern Railway Ltd. Why did you leave it until the last day to make payment when they can easily withdraw their offer and prosecute?!

I'd send them a postal order by Next Day Special Delivery ASAP.

 

[NathanPrior]

They can moan that its late but it would help if it was stated properly..they should employ me for adminy/office stuff instead of the one they have now who forgets very important things
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Send them a cheque or postal order made out to Southern Railway Ltd. Why did you leave it until the last day to make payment when they can easily withdraw their offer and prosecute?!

I'd send them a postal order by Next Day Special Delivery ASAP.

I've only got enough money for the fare and have a stamp and thats about it. I dont think they'll mind if its a few days late, as I did contact them asking
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Found some things on the Evening Standard site about how you don't have to pay a penalty fare:

3 Check that the person asking for a penalty fare is an "authorised collector".

Under the Penalty Fares Rules 2002, sections 5 (2) and (3), only an "authorised collector ...individually authorised by or on behalf of the operator of that train" is allowed to collect penalty fares. Not all train guards and excess ticket office staff are authorised collectors. You have the right to ask them to produce the special identification document which proves that they are. (This also helps to return a measure of the "embarrassment factor", which some collectors use to get travellers to pay up.)

Check also whether the person asking you for a penalty has been authorised by the operator whose train you travelled on. At stations served by more than one train company, even where they both have penalty fares schemes, it may be that the people on the ticket barrier are authorised by one operator but not by the operator you used.

4 Even if they pass these tests, politely refuse to pay the penalty and simply pay the full single fare.

On the train or at the station, you have the absolute right to make only "a minimum payment that is equal to the full single fare which [you] would have had to pay for [your] journey if penalty fares had not applied." This is section 8 (2) of the Penalty Fares Rules 2002 - quote it if anyone tries to tell you different. (The full single fare means the fare without any railcard discounts, cheap offers etc.) Ignore any threats that may be made at this point if you refuse to pay the full sum - these are phoney and have no legal basis.


Gonna write a letter to them later with all this information in it, oh I love gettinng the upper hand

 

[lyesbkz]

This is the letter I recieved:

"Thank you for your letter.I would give the option at this stage of paying what would have been a Penalty Fare to conlude this matter as your ticket was not valid. This would be in the sum of £20 and should be made to my office within 14 days"

See, not stating how to pay it...bit of a problem there

Was their address not printed on the letterhead?

 

[NathanPrior]

Was their address not printed on the letterhead?

Yes, but as it doesnt say how to pay it. I know someone whos letter told them to do it over the phone, but as mine didn't state anything, its a bit of a grey area

 

[First class]

Listen, you should be getting prosecuted by the sounds of it! Don't start playing games with them. They will bite back.

They've agreed for you to pay £20 to settle this, and gave you several weeks to sort it out. You haven't been given a Penalty Fare so that article is useless for you. They've asked you to pay £20 which WOULD HAVE been the cost of a Penalty Fare. The exceedingly generous £20 in this case is an administrative fee to avoid prosecution. Don't pay it and see what happens!

Refusing to pay is a very dangerous move, especially by trying to use loopholes which don't exist.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59827

 

[NathanPrior]

I'm gonna pay it over the phone later but gonna write a letter to them with what I've quoted later on and hopefully get it back.

 

[First class]

I'm gonna pay it over the phone later but gonna write a letter to them with what I've quoted later on and hopefully get it back.

I won't say it again because I'm seemingly wasting my time trying to help you avoid court.

Pay them the £20, be nice over the phone. Do not mention appeals etc.

Once paid, get on with your life and have a valid ticket in the future.

You will draw attention to yourself if you want to spout of about it being "unfair", "invalid" etc etc. They know a court will disagree with you.

If they don't think you've learnt your lesson, then they will most probably prosecute you so that you appreciate the severity of fare evasion/avoidance.

 

[NathanPrior]

9 Remember: penalty fares are a civil, not a criminal-matter.

Train companies often scare people into paying up by threatening prosecution and a criminal record. However, the legislation establishing penalty fares, the Railways Act 1993, section 130, states that apart from failing to give your right name and address, "nothing in this section creates, or authorises the creation of any [criminal] offence". The Penalty Fares Regulations 1994 state that "the recovery of a penalty fare is a civil debt". So even if after reading your letter the company still decides it wants the money, it has to sue you - probably not worthwhile for such a small sum.

Railway companies sometimes threaten people with the main criminal law against fare-dodgers, the Regulation of Railways Act1889. But this says there has to be "intent to avoid payment". You could argue that you haven't intended to avoid payment because you have, in fact, paid the full single fare.

 

[First class]

You have not got a penalty fare!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are being asked to pay £20 (which happens to be the same amount as a PF) to settle the matter, NOT TO ACTUALLY PAY A PENALTY FARE. The £20 is what I would term an "administrative penalty".

I give up mate. Get a decent suit.

 

[NathanPrior]

I'm NOT saying I'm not gonna pay it.

 

[Clip]

9 Remember: penalty fares are a civil, not a criminal-matter.

Train companies often scare people into paying up by threatening prosecution and a criminal record. However, the legislation establishing penalty fares, the Railways Act 1993, section 130, states that apart from failing to give your right name and address, "nothing in this section creates, or authorises the creation of any [criminal] offence". The Penalty Fares Regulations 1994 state that "the recovery of a penalty fare is a civil debt". So even if after reading your letter the company still decides it wants the money, it has to sue you - probably not worthwhile for such a small sum.

Railway companies sometimes threaten people with the main criminal law against fare-dodgers, the Regulation of Railways Act1889. But this says there has to be "intent to avoid payment". You could argue that you haven't intended to avoid payment because you have, in fact, paid the full single fare.

If they so choose and wish to withdraw the penalty fare this then becomes a criminal matter - not a civil law matter.

 

[bb21]

I don't think trying to be clever is a smart thing to do here. What are you hoping to gain from what you're trying to do? If they decide to withdraw the settlement and go down the prosecution route then you will have more to lose, much more.

 

[Clip]

I don't think trying to be clever is a smart thing to do here. What are you hoping to gain from what you're trying to do? If they decide to withdraw the settlement and go down the prosecution route then you will have more to lose, much more.

Shush man. He read a story in the Evening standard by Andrew Gilligan who gave him some outs so thats what he's going to do.

Sod taking advice from people who may or may not work in the industry, IT WAS IN THE PAPERS.

 

[bb21]

Members have offered the OP whatever advice they have, particularly in the original thread here. There is nothing more that members on here can suggest. It is up to the OP to weigh up the options and decide whatever it is that he wishes to do in order to put this matter behind him and move on.

There is no further value discussing this matter. Thread closed.