Southeastern - fare evasion

[bad_decisions]

Hi there, thanks in advance for reading. Hoping to get advice on my situation that I've stupidly got myself into.

The Case/incident - I was stopped earlier in the year after attempting to use a short ticket. My full route is Preston Park to London Bridge (occasionally other destinations) and I had used a ticket from East Croydon to London Bridge (return e-ticket purchased on Uber). At first I attempted some feeble excuse about getting a lift to EC and then folded and cooperated with questions cautiously. I've been waiting for the letter since and finally received it at the weekend, dated 2 May 2024. It states the matter has been provisionally authorised for prosecution and I have 21 days to respond, completing the factual details of my identity (name, address, DOB, NI number, occupation etc.) and "making any comments about the incident on the reverse"


Surrounding Detail - This was the first time I've been caught for fare evasion, the last time I've done so of course (I've since bought legal tickets for all journeys). I only moved to the area in September and the lack of barriers tempted me (previous London TFL, honest customer). I've been over my history and in total I have:

• Uber - 19 journeys
• Trainline - 22 journeys

I recognise there's no excuse and curse my previous self for thinking it would be ok, I simply noticed there were never on train inspectors and naively thought at worst I was risking a one-off fine one day for that specific journey only. In my head I justified it via the fact that I was concerned for my job and wanted to save money. As I say, I'm not looking for sympathy, these are just the facts.

Next steps - I recognise I need to pay my way and am willing to do so. My overwhelming priority is to avoid a criminal record, I can't put a price on that. Some questions/advice I'd love your learned thoughts on prior to replying fully:

1. Solicitor - I'm erring towards the side of caution and engaging a solicitor to deal with this, any thoughts? Seem to have mixed opinions on the forum but ultimately, if it won't harm my case then it seems like the right thing to do. I've made a couple of calls and awaiting a response.
2. The ticket I was caught on was bought on Uber, as mentioned I also have offences on Trainline - should I volunteer this information?
3. I'm not looking to weave a sob story, but should I mention that I am currently going through redundancy? Just for context, no excuse.
4. Any other advice appreciated

Thanks again folks.

 

[Watershed]

You want to be very careful in terms of what you admit to here, given that this is a public forum and it is read by the train companies - it could even be used as evidence against you. Southeastern (who will be acting on behalf of Govia Thameslink Railway, the operator of services on the Brighton Main Line) are likely to request details of your ticket purchases from relevant retailers.

Given the number of instances of short faring here, and the fact that you are anxious to avoid a conviction, I think it would be advisable to obtain legal representation as you say. Though there is every possibility of arranging a settlement without a solicitor, I would say it probably does increase the chances slightly as your case will be put to SE in a professional manner.

You can and should volunteer the full details of your story to your solicitor, who will then advise you on how to proceed. It's unlikely to be considered relevant that you are being made redundant - this would only impact your financial situation in terms of any fine imposed if it did go to Court.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi there, thanks in advance for reading. Hoping to get advice on my situation that I've stupidly got myself into.

The Case/incident - I was stopped at the end of February after attempting to use a short ticket. My full route is Preston Park to London Bridge (occasionally other destinations) and I had used a ticket from East Croydon to London Bridge (return e-ticket purchased on Uber). At first I attempted some feeble excuse about getting a lift to EC and then folded and cooperated with questions cautiously. I've been waiting for the letter since and finally received it at the weekend, dated 2 May 2024. It states the matter has been provisionally authorised for prosecution and I have 21 days to respond, completing the factual details of my identity (name, address, DOB, NI number, occupation etc.) and "making any comments about the incident on the reverse"


Surrounding Detail - This was the first time I've been caught for fare evasion, the last time I've done so of course (I've since bought legal tickets for all journeys). I only moved to the area in September and the lack of barriers tempted me (previous London TFL, honest customer). I've been over my history and in total I have:

• Uber - 19 journeys
  • 17 x short fares between East Croydon and London Bridge (some outward, some return, some singles, some returns)
  • 1 x Gatwick to London Bridge
  • 1 x missing Gatwick to East Croydon but have tickets either side (yeah who knows what I was doing)
• Trainline - 22 journeys -
  • 16 x short fares between East Croydon and London Bridge (some outward, some return, all singles)
  • 2 x short fares from Gatwick to London Bridge (singles)
  • 1 x short fare Hassocks to London Bridge (single) - I think I just made the train and couldn't buy a ticket from P Park
  • 1 x short fare Hassocks to London Victoria (single) - I think I just made the train and couldn't buy a ticket from P Park
  • 1 x short fare Haywards Heath to Preston Park (single)
  • 1 x short fare Hassocks to Clapham Junction - return fare, I bought an additional ticket on the way back but not outward, presumably rushing again. I was going to another part of London that day, hence Clapham ticket.

I recognise there's no excuse and curse my previous self for thinking it would be ok, I simply noticed there were never on train inspectors and naively thought at worst I was risking a one-off fine one day for that specific journey only. In my head I justified it via the fact that I was concerned for my job and wanted to save money (in a case of great timing, this has come to life and I'm currently being made redundant - 1 week since consultation started). As I say, I'm not looking for sympathy, these are just the facts.

Next steps - I recognise I need to pay my way and am willing to do so. My overwhelming priority is to avoid a criminal record, I can't put a price on that. Some questions/advice I'd love your learned thoughts on prior to replying fully:

1. Solicitor - I'm erring towards the side of caution and engaging a solicitor to deal with this, any thoughts? Seem to have mixed opinions on the forum but ultimately, if it won't harm my case then it seems like the right thing to do. I've made a couple of calls and awaiting a response.
2. The ticket I was caught on was bought on Uber, as mentioned I also have offences on Trainline - should I volunteer this information?
3. I'm not looking to weave a sob story, but should I mention that I am currently going through redundancy? Just for context, no excuse.
4. Any other advice appreciated

Thanks again folks.

Welcome to the forum!

You've asked (and numbered) 4 questions but there's an additional point just before them. Let's start there:

0. Your 'overwhelming priority is to avoid a criminal record'. While this may be true in terms of your self respect, it may not actually be the case in terms of your employment chances. Our general understanding is that the majority of jobs do not require a completely unblemished record (or to say something very similar, a clear DBS). There are exceptions - and working in banking/finance is one of them. You will know where your career lies. But none the less, a criminal record may not be absolutely catastrophic. Having said which, if you can avoid one without unreasonable difficulty that's a good thing to do: if nothing else, if you are able to settle matters out of court it's likely to be cheaper than the combined fine, court fees, compensation and prosecution costs that a conviction normally brings.
1. At this stage, my view is that you do not need a solicitor. You seem to have identified everything that the railway will want to know for agreeing an out of court settlement. If the railway take the same view, you may well be able to settle without the added expense (think high hundreds of pounds) of a solicitor. There are also some quite recent cases where involving a solicitor at the point where prosecution was actually started rather than just threatened has been successful in resolving the matter out of court.
2. Without seeing what you have been sent it is hard to answer this. However, the length of time between incident and letter from the railway suggests that the railway have been researching your case. And Uber use a third party for their railway tickets (I think Omio - someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong). I have no reason to think that Uber/Omio will not provide information to the railway for the prevention of crime, so you should assume that the railway know about your Uber tickets. ON that basis, you should disclose your use of the Uber tickets as failing to do so will give the message that you are not being fully open - which will discourage the railway from agreeing a settlement.
3. My feeling is that whatever your intention, it will sound like a sob story. Unless you will be arguing that you will not be seeking a new job away from home, so you will not be travelling by train in future, I don't see that it will help.
4. I'm not sure I have anything more to add!

 

[ikcdab]

You are not required to incriminate yourself.
For now, the best response is to answer truthfully about the journey(s) they have asked about. There is no need to tell them about things they they haven't asked about.
They may or may not come back to you about the other trips in due course. Deal with that if and when it happens.
However, if your are determined to get it all out on the table now and get it over and done with, then a letter back to them expressing contrition and listing the other cases should go a long way to achieving an out of court settlement.
You will see plenty of models on this forum about how to write such responses and if you come back here with a draft, you will get good advice.

 

[30907]

You are not required to incriminate yourself.
For now, the best response is to answer truthfully about the journey(s) they have asked about. There is no need to tell them about things they they haven't asked about.

....at this stage
It is very likely that they will investigate your history and certainly the East Croydon journeys will be on their radar.

However, if your are determined to get it all out on the table now and get it over and done with, then a letter back to them expressing contrition and listing the other cases should go a long way to achieving an out of court settlement.

Or you could say something like "I admit this is not the first time"?