So many announcements, so few people taking them on board

[Indigo Soup]

The key issue is that British "safety" culture has, for many years, been to do the minimum (and thereby the least effective solution, second only to PPE) because it's the cheapest and most achievable, and everything else gets de-scoped. Adding a "safety" announcement or a sign creates the fiction that something has been done, even if it is effectively useless and people can't do anything with the information.

Safety and security cultures also prevent you from removing anything. Because if you (personally) get rid of an announcement, and then something happens that the announcement might have prevented, you (personally) will be seen as the person who removed a safety or security measure. Which is not an enviable position in which to be, so removing them is much more difficult than adding them.

As far as the 3-S announcements go... I'm not sure I've ever heard an equivalent announcement in an airport, despite their having an attitude towards security that makes most places short of nuclear establishments look casual.

 

[RailWonderer]

Safety and security cultures also prevent you from removing anything. Because if you (personally) get rid of an announcement, and then something happens that the announcement might have prevented, you (personally) will be seen as the person who removed a safety or security measure. Which is not an enviable position in which to be, so removing them is much more difficult than adding them.

As far as the 3-S announcements go... I'm not sure I've ever heard an equivalent announcement in an airport, despite their having an attitude towards security that makes most places short of nuclear establishments look casual.

But you can always say that annoucements don't guarantee people actually listen to them. Noise pollution is important to alleviate - case in point, When see it, say it sorted plays it isn't uncommon to hear people mimic it either bored or tired of it because it's been playing for over a decade. When you repeat something enough times it no longer makes any sense, it becomes abstract meaningless sound.

 

[TimSpencer]

Yes, there are far too many announcements and therefore people don't pay attention.

However, the people who make these decisions probably lack the sort of real-world experience people like us have.

True, I suspect.
I find the sheer quantity of announcements pointless and annoying, as do the majority of people here it would seem.
I have written to various TOCs and other interested parties, like The Department of Transport, about this issue and the replies are very consistent and along the lines of: "Sorry you don't like it but there's really no prospect of any reduction in announcements."

If there's an up side to all this, it's saving me a fortune in train fares.

 

[Romsey]

I haven't read the full thread , so apologies if I'm repeating something already mentioned.
Similar problems of people not noticing announcements occur on ferries. Having to travel across the Solent on Wightlink or Red Funnel every week or two, many passengers don't seem to notice the safety announcements. ( Occasional travellers seem to be the worst.)
All credit to Isle of Man Steam PacketCompany for making the safety video something aimed at childern using someone dressed as a pirate It caught all the passengers attention which is exactly what is was meant to do. But I guess it would be very annoying if you use IOMSP frequently ....

 

[Russel]

I noticed while waiting for a Victoria line train at Euston last week that LU seem to have added speaker to the bottom of certain escalators that rotate through various versions of "Hold the hand-rail" every 5-10 seconds... I think if there was a gap of more than a few minutes between trains, it would get quiet annoying.

 

[jon0844]

As far as the 3-S announcements go... I'm not sure I've ever heard an equivalent announcement in an airport, despite their having an attitude towards security that makes most places short of nuclear establishments look casual.

My thoughts are that airports are very heavily monitored by CCTV and patrolling staff, while many railway stations aren't necessarily so well covered (I'm sure most stations have CCTV, but there will still likely be LOADS of hiding places and areas not on camera, and many stations will be totally unstaffed). Then there's DOO trains or just lots of coaches with no member of staff at any given time.

Thus, the railway needs to tell people to be the eyes and ears of security, which airports are less likely to rely on.

 

[Northerngirl]

My thoughts are that airports are very heavily monitored by CCTV and patrolling staff, while many railway stations aren't necessarily so well covered (I'm sure most stations have CCTV, but there will still likely be LOADS of hiding places and areas not on camera, and many stations will be totally unstaffed). Then there's DOO trains or just lots of coaches with no member of staff at any given time.

Thus, the railway needs to tell people to be the eyes and ears of security, which airports are less likely to rely on.

I think 99% of people would be oblivious to something happening or not care, if they really want to be serious about the security theatre, then they need security staff, not just an announcement that just encourages people to blow up the PA system

 

[jon0844]

I think 99% of people would be oblivious to something happening or not care, if they really want to be serious about the security theatre, then they need security staff, not just an announcement that just encourages people to blow up the PA system

I'm all for having security staff on every station and train. Not sure who will pay for it though.

I think the figures show that people do use the 61016 service and there are plenty of reports on social media of BTP acting upon it. It's mostly for anti-social behaviour than terror threats, but it seems to work.

I doubt it's 99% of people not caring as people DO notice things. You only need to look at all the things people record to post on social media. The question is whether people actually report things or just think of their video clip going viral...

I would say that for the 61016 messages, it might be just as viable to have lots more fixed signs than audio announcements. Put the number on the back of tickets, or displayed on your app with an e-ticket.

 

[Russel]

I think 99% of people would be oblivious to something happening or not care, if they really want to be serious about the security theatre, then they need security staff, not just an announcement that just encourages people to blow up the PA system

Security staff are mostly just security theatre though, outside of settings such as airports, how many security guards do you see that are anything more than minimum wage agency staff that have received little to no training?

 

[TimSpencer]

The TOCs need to know how unwanted their noise pollution is. Contact them and let them know. The more people do so, the stronger our case.

 

[bramling]

I'm all for having security staff on every station and train. Not sure who will pay for it though.

I think the figures show that people do use the 61016 service and there are plenty of reports on social media of BTP acting upon it. It's mostly for anti-social behaviour than terror threats, but it seems to work.

I doubt it's 99% of people not caring as people DO notice things. You only need to look at all the things people record to post on social media. The question is whether people actually report things or just think of their video clip going viral...

I would say that for the 61016 messages, it might be just as viable to have lots more fixed signs than audio announcements. Put the number on the back of tickets, or displayed on your app with an e-ticket.

I’m not sure 61016 is much more use than a chocolate toilet roll. Given it can nowadays take *hours* to get through to the BTP by phone, I can’t see how a text message is going to get much of a look in.

It might make people *feel* like they’re doing something, but in reality it doesn’t seem any more effective than wiping your backside with aforementioned chocolate toilet roll.

And that’s before we even consider the likelihood of an actual BTP *response*.

 

[island]

The TOCs need to know how unwanted their noise pollution is. Contact them and let them know. The more people do so, the stronger our case.

They do not care.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I like the big sign I trip over in front of the escalator at Waterloo that warns me about the escalator.. is that really necessary..

On subject though, most people now have headphones in while traveling - I have always wondered if that's to avoid the never ending announcements. I tend to tune out but the only objection I have is that you get all the announcements when everything is going to plan but during disruption they all go silent...

 

[side effect]

Still see passengers ignore the doors will not open at the next station due to small platform on the Elizabeth line. See them hauling their luggage to the next set of doors ready to return on the other side.

 

[Akela]

I'm all for having security staff on every station and train. Not sure who will pay for it though.

I think the figures show that people do use the 61016 service and there are plenty of reports on social media of BTP acting upon it. It's mostly for anti-social behaviour than terror threats, but it seems to work.

I doubt it's 99% of people not caring as people DO notice things. You only need to look at all the things people record to post on social media. The question is whether people actually report things or just think of their video clip going viral...

I would say that for the 61016 messages, it might be just as viable to have lots more fixed signs than audio announcements. Put the number on the back of tickets, or displayed on your app with an e-ticket.

On that note, I think they’re using the wrong messaging for that service - the fact is, the biggest threat to people’s safety on the railway isn’t the extremely unlikely scenario where someone leaves a bomb on a train, it’s usually the situation where a group of lads with too much alcohol in their bloodstream start harassing other passengers and trying to start fights.

I don’t think people really want nor need a hotline to report potential terrorism, they want a hotline to deal with anti-social behaviour, yet the messaging spiel is so vague and doesn’t mention anything about your personal safety or the safety of other passengers. The posters on the wall ask people to report incidents of people walking into places they’re not supposed to be, taking photos of things they’re not supposed to or acting “unusual” (how is a lay-person supposed to decide what’s unusual anyway?), instead of reporting incidents of people shouting, harassing passengers, or being threatening, which are a much more direct and serious risk for the people within the immediate area.

The messaging feels tailored to what BTP wants (more eyes on the railway to keep it secure from a national security perspective) rather then want the passengers want (a fast response hotline to deal with incidents that make people feel unsafe).

 

[chrisjo]

The messaging feels tailored to what BTP wants (more eyes on the railway to keep it secure from a national security perspective) rather then want the passengers want (a fast response hotline to deal with incidents that make people feel unsafe).

Well said.

 

[STKKK46]

Particularly enjoyed on the Cal Sleeper the other night, reading the “for us getting a good night’s sleep is important, there will be no announcements during disruption, would you like to host to inform you if the train will be delayed” on the breakfast card. Smart way of doing it I thought. Filled it in, shoved it on the door, settled in. Could hear various other people boarding, families etc trying to settle kids before the train departed.

30 mins later (still in Euston), vaguely drifting off ….

“IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT DOESN’T LOOK RIGHT ….”

3 times, one after the other, through the room PA at full volume.

Given almost all people will be travelling alone, or with their partner / known companion, in a space the size of a shoe box, in a room they require key card entry to, and which they have to be checked into by a member of staff, this must be up there with the most stupid examples of the electronic diarrhoea ?

Would be interesting to know, when the 10th Anniversary of that particular campaign is reached in November 2016, how many times they estimate it has been played across the network and how many severe incidents it has provably prevented.

On the basis that car accident statistics would be drastically improved if we all stayed at home stationary for the remainder of our lives, and doing anything at all carries some level of risk, perhaps we might enter the second decade with a little more faith in our fellow humans sitting nonchalantly next to the unattended rucksack with the ticking alarm clock and wires poking out, sitting wondering whether that text number finishes … 61014 or 61016. If only they’d had someone to read it out to them multiple times this minute.

Late to the party but this is probably the favourite post I’ve ever read on this forum. Thank you.

 

[jon0844]

I’m not sure 61016 is much more use than a chocolate toilet roll. Given it can nowadays take *hours* to get through to the BTP by phone, I can’t see how a text message is going to get much of a look in.

It might make people *feel* like they’re doing something, but in reality it doesn’t seem any more effective than wiping your backside with aforementioned chocolate toilet roll.

And that’s before we even consider the likelihood of an actual BTP *response*.

The response can be very quick and more convenient than making a call and being on hold. They will ask for more info and you can communicate discreetly by text.

It took two stops for the police to intercept the train I was on when I last used it, although it's worth noting that I was in central London at the time so there would be a lot of police around. I wouldn't expect the same in the suburbs.

And it was anti social behaviour I was reporting.