So I *AM* a fare evader, carrying out fraudulent behaviour...

[jon0844]

If you can say when it starts and ends myself or someone else could probably tell you what it would cost (roughly) to change them.

My ticket is valid until 3rd January 2011.

HATFIELD (HERTS) & HADLEY WOOD *
Route: ANY PERMITTED

I can't actually state the original cost as I got a replacement recently (well, 12th August) as it stopped working the gates at Hatfield. I only see it shown as £0.00! Thankfully, now that the plusBus part is a separate ticket, I won't have to worry about getting a replacement one of those this time around.

I would wish to upgrade this to become HATFIELD to Z456

At the same time, I'd like to know if I'd realistically get any money back, and how much, by switching my Z1-6 TravelCard to be Z1-3 only on the same basis.

 

[b0b]

HATFIELD (HERTS) 6070 HAT
HADLEY WOOD 6075 HDW

season ticket starting on 1/4/2010 valid until 1/3/2011

PSS - SEASON STD FCC
00000 - ANY PERMITTED

1 Adult @£ 1016.00 = £ 1016.00
__________
£ 1016.00

 

[Greenback]

Are you using the US date format there B0b?

 

[b0b]

Are you using the US date format there B0b?

that must be, sorry guys i ran avantix traveler under wine emulation in linux and it must be set to the US date format, oops. anyway that's the 12 month price that JM was looking for

 

[jon0844]

I have the 12 month prices for a whole load of combinations, as posted on the first page (where I said my ticket was £1016 based on the FCC website, but I cannot confirm on my actual ticket as it was replaced - but it must be that), but it's the changing of tickets part way through (namely about 10 months in) that I need to know.

 

[John @ home]

it's the changing of tickets part way through (namely about 10 months in) that I need to know.

An annual season ticket has no refund value after 10 months 12 days. Those with access to The Manual may be able to say whether it has any exchange value after this time.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'm not at work so this is a rough guestimate but I think you have 100 days left. This means your value left today is 278+522 pounds. Your new tickets would cost 515+330 pounds. So you have to pay 237 pounds and wait for a refund of 192 pounds.

You should be aware that these may be dealt with seperately so don't expect to just pay the difference.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, they will be done separately as I bought them at two different places.

Thanks for working it out. I guess it's quite easy, and only an issue if you were cancelling a ticket and getting a refund. That's presumably when it isn't worked out on a daily basis, as the last two months would effectively be free and there would be no refund?

 

[MikeWh]

IIRC from my commuting days, when refunding part of an annual you are charged for the used portion at the monthly rate hence there being no refund after ten and a bit months. Exchange is different as has been calculated here.

 

[jon0844]

That does make things a lot easier! Thanks for all the help.

I'll still use the slow trains for now, but at least I know that every day that goes by the extra money I need to pay goes down until it's nominal.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There is a rule for how much time is left on the ticket(s) which I think from memory is a minimum of one week. I could be wrong though, it's a while since I've done one.

 

[jon0844]

I hope I will be somewhere abroad for Christmas/New Year, but it would be tempting to get FCC to have to change my ticket just 24 hours before I renew it.

 

[John @ home]

My ticket is valid until 3rd January 2011.

it would be tempting to get FCC to have to change my ticket just 24 hours before I renew it.

I don't think you would choose to change your ticket on 2 January 2011.

Last year it was beneficial to buy annual tickets after the fare change date of 2 January 2010. This was due to the negative relevant RPI.

This year there will be a substantial price increase from 2 January 2011. The exact amount is not yet known. It will therefore benefit you - and everyone else - to buy annual season tickets to start not later than 1 January 2011, even if that means you have two valid tickets for a few days.

 

[jon0844]

Oh, don't worry, I will. I have always renewed before the start of the year to pay the previous year rate.

I delayed it this time as it was advantageous to do so (and I was also away) because there was an ever so slight decrease.

I was only joking about the waiting until the day before to update my ticket to add the zones, just to make FCC suffer. For a start, I don't have any problems with the staff working in the booking office.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

(Saturday 25th)

I went to change my ticket today, but was told that it would take too long and I'd probably need to leave it with them and collect it on Monday.

It took a me a while to explain to the gentleman WHY I wanted to change it, and the man in the booking office couldn't understand what I wanted to do or why (he thought my current combination was just fine). At first he said I'd have to wait until renewal in January.

Eventually, after trying to explain my situation in as few words as possible, he just accepted that I wanted a Hatfield to Z456 and found it on the screen after he looked up a season ticket to Oakleigh Park.

But, he then said it would take hours to work out the pricing and suggested I go and fill in some paperwork and come back next week, so I wouldn't be without my ticket. I wasn't sure what he meant, as I can't hand in my ticket in the morning then go to work - I'd have no ticket!!

I now have a 'SEASON TICKET CHANGE-OVER APPLICATION' (RSP 25805/30) and a 'SEASON TiCKET REFUND APPLICATION' (RSP 25805) to complete and I'm not sure why I need two forms! Most of the form appears to be for office use, and I am not sure on what to put in some of the other sections.

It looks like it may take a while to get my ticket changed.. I hope the downgrade of my Oyster card isn't as tricky.

 

[barrykas]

I now have a 'SEASON TICKET CHANGE-OVER APPLICATION' (RSP 25805/30) and a 'SEASON TiCKET REFUND APPLICATION' (RSP 25805) to complete and I'm not sure why I need two forms! Most of the form appears to be for office use, and I am not sure on what to put in some of the other sections.

The Refund form is for Accountancy purposes, as the "Credit due on original ticket" from the Changeover Form needs to be documented and authorised as with any other refund.

The bits you need to fill in are your name and address, sign and date where indicated, method of payment for the original ticket, and a reason along the lines of "Credit for changeover". Everything else will be completed by the Ticket Office.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The forms are required I'm afraid. See if you can start the process in advance. At City Thameslink the staff used to accept the forms for processing and allow you to use the ticket until the day of change, I can't say if anyone does this now but it might be worth asking.

Alternatively fill in the forms and return when the office is not so busy.

 

[jon0844]

I handed in the forms at Hatfield this morning so hope I can get my new ticket tonight.

I also downgraded my Travelcard at Old Street for tomorrow, but it looks like it was done for today. In which case it means I'll have to buy a Z3-6 extension tonight as I won't be covered for Z456!

In addition, they charged me £5 and didn't refund me the difference, saying it will be processed later.

I bloody well hope it will be as I should get back a fair few quid! I was also somewhat concerned that they make you write down your credit card number, start and end date on a bit of paper that could end up anywhere.

What a lot of bother for the sake of about £45 and because FCC suddenly decided to change its rules. Still, at least I'll be legit at the end of the day (literally!).

 

[b0b]

In which case it means I'll have to buy a Z3-6 extension tonight as I won't be covered for Z456!

You think the guys at Old Street will be able to issue that ticket? I have a bad feeling about tonight, in that the Old Street people won't be able to issue that ticket plus you'll run into your "favourite" RPI ...

 

[jon0844]

I think they can do extensions for within the Travelcard zones! Just not beyond that.

If they can't, I can surely pay at the destination and not be given a PF.

At this point, I'm in the 'bring it on' mood anyway. I'd quite like to meet my lovely best friend.

 

[yorkie]

You think the guys at Old Street will be able to issue that ticket? I have a bad feeling about tonight, in that the Old Street people won't be able to issue that ticket plus you'll run into your "favourite" RPI ...

That would be bad news for the RPI

 

[b0b]

If you're in the mood for the fight, don't ask for a zones extension, ask for a single Boundary Zone 2 to Hadley Wood ticket, knowing they can't issue that

 

[jon0844]

To be honest, I just travelled without buying the extension knowing that I had copies of the paperwork and would get my ticket as soon as I got to Hatfield. By getting it done from today, I solved the problem even if I didn't technically have the ticket in my possession at the time I went from Z4 to Hadley Wood.

However, it didn't quite turn out as easy as I hoped, given I'd handed in the paperwork at 0855. Why did anyone (including myself) expect that it would?

I had to queue for almost 15 minutes, although that did include letting some people go in front as they had a train to catch. When I finally saw the gentleman with no name (does ANYONE at FCC wear name badges?) I asked if I could change my ticket.

He went off to look for the paperwork, and asked my name. I could see the forms on the table, the only one (I guess they don't do many changeovers) but he took ages to home in on them. He then picked them up and said that someone had left them with a note for him to do, but he'd never done one before and didn't know what to do with it.

I could see that nothing had been done. No calculations or anything written on, and he seemingly wanted to give the paperwork back to me. I said I had to get the ticket that day and he said no chance! First he said it would take a few days at least, and then he said that there was no such ticket for Hatfield to Z456 as he'd looked earlier.

He kept contradicting himself until he appeared to give up and come clean; he was standing in for someone off sick and hadn't been given any training on how to do them and had never seen the paperwork before. I suspect he was agency staff and given only very basic training. At one point he started looking in a timetable for guidance!

He said that if I needed it, I'd need to go to another station - so I left and then drove later to Welwyn Garden City to (fortunately for me) see the gentleman who had given me the paperwork on Saturday. He was shocked and said I should complain immediately, as staff should know what to do (or how to find out). I had even said to the man at Hatfield he could have another 30 minutes or so (I'd have come back later) but he would have still done nothing.

The man at WGC was a bit upset about having to do it, but did look up the info for me as I helped him find the ticket by giving him the price. I'm sure he found the ticket that way. Then off he went with calculator in hand, then came back to say it was £240 something - but the ticket actually shows £504.70. He had to do a manual payment too, so he took my word for it that the card would authorise (it will) and gave me an old-school slip of paper with an imprint of the card. Haven't seen one of those for a while.

Anyway, despite the uselessness at Hatfield, and the exceptional help from the man at WGC, I now have two Travelcards; one from Hatfield to Zones 4, 5 & 6 and my Oyster for Zones 1, 2 & 3. Result.

I guess now I'll be told by someone at FCC that I need something to bridge the gap between zones 3 on one and zone 4 on another!!

An hour and a half it took in the end, plus the petrol and parking fee to go to Welwyn Garden City. But, I'm really not sure I can be bothered to complain. The only upside was that I found a £2 rail voucher I'd been given last October with Delay Repay, so I used that before it would have expired!

 

[barrykas]

The man at WGC was a bit upset about having to do it, but did look up the info for me as I helped him find the ticket by giving him the price. I'm sure he found the ticket that way. Then off he went with calculator in hand, then came back to say it was £240 something - but the ticket actually shows £504.70.

A bit late now, as you've already got the ticket, but here's how I'd work it out:

Original ticket for Hatfield - Hadley Wood, valid from 04 JNR 2010 to 03 JNR 2011.

Price of original ticket: £1016.00

Base rate for original ticket: £1016.00 / 365 days = £2.78 (to nearest 1p)

Cost of Hatfield - Zones 4-6 Annual Travelcard from 04 JNR 2010 to 03 JNR 2011: £47.00 * 40 weeks = £1880.00

Base rate for new ticket: £1880.00 / 365 days = £5.15 (to nearest 1p)

Starting date for new ticket: 28 SEP 2010, Valid until: 03 JNR 2011, Number of days Validity: 98

Credit due on original ticket: £2.78 * 98 = £272.44
Charge for new ticket: £5.15 * 98 = £504.70

Payment due from customer: £504.70 - £272.44 = £232.26

He had to do a manual payment too, so he took my word for it that the card would authorise (it will) and gave me an old-school slip of paper with an imprint of the card. Haven't seen one of those for a while.

I'm not sure what Ticket Issuing System the GN side stations are using these days, but what he should have done is issued the ticket at £504.70 (which he did), along with a Season Ticket Refund Sundry for the £272.44 credit, then processed your card through the TIS in the normal manner for the £232.26.

If he didn't know how to do that, the next best option is to put the £272.44 through as some other method of payment and charge the balance to your card.

If that wasn't an option for some reason, he should've phoned up the Merchant Services Provider for an authorisation code and written that on the manual voucher. (Though having said that, the industry has recently changed providers, and if it's anything like our place, they won't have updated the imprinter plate and fallback vouchers).

HTH,

Barry

 

[jon0844]

I actually paid £231.90. Well, I will at some point.

I offered to give my driving license number as an additional bit of security (I don't know why he didn't phone for authorisation the old fashioned way) but he said he now knew who I was and so he would come after me!

I said that would be fine, as that would mean him coming to me instead of me going there!

I don't know why TfL charged me a £5 admin fee, but nothing from FCC. Is that because I downgraded one ticket, or is it just that TfL charges for any change?

 

[barrykas]

I don't know why TfL charged me a £5 admin fee, but nothing from FCC. Is that because I downgraded one ticket, or is it just that TfL charges for any change?

Not being an LU employee I can't be sure, but I'd GUESS that they handle a downgrade by doing a refund on the original ticket and issuing a new one (given the "fun" involved with trying to put a credit for more than the cost of the ticket you're trying to issue, it wouldn't surprise me!)...

Having said that, in such a case, I would've thought that there generally shouldn't be an administration fee for the refund, given it's not your fault they can't process it in the same way as an upgrade.

Cheers,

Barry