Snow Disruption 5/1/25-6/1/25

[The Planner]

VSTP's never seem to work, however when I was in the box at Colchester, some of the WTT freights were at times just as bad anyway ! Planners seem to overlook the fact that freights are a lot longer and heavier now than even 6 or 7 years ago ! takes time to get up to 75mph, and from Ipswich its uphill to Bentley.

Heavier class 4 freights didn't have any running times in the system, a lot of work has gone into 1600t and some 1800t Class 4 timings.

 

[Spartacus]

VSTP's never seem to work, however when I was in the box at Colchester, some of the WTT freights were at times just as bad anyway ! Planners seem to overlook the fact that freights are a lot longer and heavier now than even 6 or 7 years ago ! takes time to get up to 75mph, and from Ipswich its uphill to Bentley.

That's because so many of them were running overweight. Less of an issue now.

 

[Blockman]

If the crossover points are not fitted with facing point locks the passage of trains carrying passengers is absolutely forbidden without them being clipped and padlocked by an authorised person (Mobile Operations Manager, Permanent Way Supervisor, etc.) This is to prevent the possibility of the points moving under the train and causing a derailment which could kill or injure people. Unfortunately, in the current weather conditions it could take a suitable person hours to reach the site. In these circumstances I think the necessity to detrain and make their way over the footbridge was a comparatively minor inconvenience for the passengers.

Modern point motors are fitted with point locks regardless of whether they are on facing or trailing points, so there should be no requirement to clip them. Signaller's permission (maybe MOM's as well?) should be sufficient.

 

[MCR247]

Surely those same people will have, indeed desire, to get off the train when they reach their destinations and thus be undertaking a similar risk?

If they end up stuck on a derailed train they may well have to exit trackside which has many risks too.

Well, not quite imo. Most passengers boarded between Nottingham and Chesterfield where the weather was rain, I don’t think I was the only one onboard surprised to see amount of snow in the Peak District and I certainly hadn’t anticipated in needing to go out in it. Piccadilly/Lime Street would have been where most passengers were heading and I doubt they had inches of untreated snow/ice on their platforms!

What is the logic of making people detrain? This seems a classic case of risks not being fully assessed against each other.

It's a shunt signal to crossover in that direction, passengers aren't allowed on board. Maybe dispensation could have been granted in the circumstances, maybe not.

Plenty of risk around slippery/icy surfaces when crossing over to the other platform. That feels like a far bigger risk than staying on board during a shunting manoeuvre. But I bet the railway doesn’t think like that.

To be fair to the driver and guard, they were very apologetic and informed passengers by coming down the train themselves instead of just using the PA, and they explained they had asked permission to do the move with passengers on rather than retraining the 6 car 170 but had been declined.

Crossing over at Grindleford was quite treacherous as it wasn’t a footbridge but a path up to the road and back down but everyone made it over it as far as I could tell! I definitely lost my balance a few times but didn’t hit the deck

My biggest complaint about the whole thing would be on behalf of the passengers desperate to get to Manchester rather than back to Nottingham via Chesterfield. Control said (via the guard and driver) that passengers should go back to Chesterfield as the line was shut and no trains were going through. If I’d had phone signal at Grindleford I could’ve checked what has happening with the next Liverpool at Chesterfield and let passengers know it was headed towards the Hope Valley line and might be going through to Manchester. Or control could’ve told our train crew this. But instead the two trains pass within 10 minutes of us re boarding My journey was non essential so I just went back home but I’d have been annoyed if I had somewhere important to be.

Out of curiousity, does anyone have any info about what shut the route? We were told closed signal boxes but the train before us got through and the one after got through so it seems odd.

 

[railways80]

Trains were cancelled, especially Avanti WC, because their drivers "did not want to walk on snow." Radicicolous, i know. Especially when they are on a £55,000-£73,500 salary and are off protesting most of the year anyways, i feel sorry for the passengers and lorry drivers. The real people who have to brave the elements, the passengers, for a service that isn't going to show up because...… ASLEF is afraid of some snow at a depot

 

[Tractor2018]

Trains were cancelled, especially Avanti WC, because their drivers "did not want to walk on snow." Radicicolous, i know. Especially when they are on a £55,000-£73,500 salary and are off protesting most of the year anyways, i feel sorry for the passengers and lorry drivers. The real people who have to brave the elements, the passengers, for a service that isn't going to show up because...… ASLEF is afraid of some snow at a depot

If you just swallow what the Telegraph feeds you you're only showing yourself to be obtuse.

 

[Spaceflower]

Always trust the voices in your head.

 

[railways80]

If you just swallow what the Telegraph feeds you you're only showing yourself to be obtuse.

Did they or didn't they run. They same guards and drivers who get lots of time off when protesting about absolute rubbish. I don't know how most of the train crew or station staff get hired these days, absolutely useless!!!

 

[66701GBRF]

Trains were cancelled, especially Avanti WC, because their drivers "did not want to walk on snow." Radicicolous, i know. Especially when they are on a £55,000-£73,500 salary and are off protesting most of the year anyways, i feel sorry for the passengers and lorry drivers. The real people who have to brave the elements, the passengers, for a service that isn't going to show up because...… ASLEF is afraid of some snow at a depot

If you are going to post such things (including a quote) at least post where it came from. In any case, if the safe walking route isn't safe to walk on why should anyone risk injury? The clue is in the name.

 

[Tractor2018]

Did they or didn't they run. They same guards and drivers who get lots of time off when protesting about absolute rubbish. I don't know how most of the train crew or station staff get hired these days, absolutely useless!!!

Groannnnnn.

 

[Sleepy]

Disruption continuing into tomorrow morning, EMR have diverted 0456 and 0607 Nottingham to Norwich to avoid the route via Oakham.

 

[railways80]

If you are going to post such things (including a quote) at least post where it came from. In any case, if the safe walking route isn't safe to walk on why should anyone risk injury? The clue is in the name.

Your talking about safety here, in a train depot, where the floor and walking routes are probably anti-slip mats anyway. Meanwhile lorry drivers are still doing their jobs like anyone else. I'm telling you, it has absolutely nothing to do with safety.

 

[P156KWJ]

Did they or didn't they run. They same guards and drivers who get lots of time off when protesting about absolute rubbish. I don't know how most of the train crew or station staff get hired these days, absolutely useless!!!

Irony when you've been posting about applying for a trainee driver job 'six times'

Solid principles there

 

[JordR]

I'm surprised you didn't manage to get a dig in on 'microwave health checks' or 'hello restarts my break', because the Telegraph did. Really destroys any credibility even if the actual story had the slightest bit of truth to it, although it more sounds like a contractor was asked to grit the walkways and then all was fine.

Train services were cancelled over the weekend after a trade union told drivers not to walk on snow.

Avanti West Coast services between Liverpool and London did not run for several hours on Sunday morning after members of the Aslef trade union refused to walk to their trains.

The drivers were among those given a 15 per cent pay rise by the Government last summer, sending their salaries soaring to just under £70,000 a year.

Ten trains were prevented from leaving the depot on time, leading to about 14 services being cancelled, according to a Telegraph analysis of Network Rail data. This is likely to have resulted in thousands of passengers having their journeys disrupted and delayed, leaving them in line for Delay Repay compensation.

On Saturday, the Met Office had said that one to three inches of snow was due to fall in the Liverpool area on Sunday, rising to five to 11 inches across Wales and the southern Pennines.

Photographs of the Liverpool Edge Hill depot, taken in the small hours of Sunday morning, show about two inches of snow on rails, electrical cables and other equipment.

The depot is one of Avanti West Coast’s main servicing locations for its long-distance Pendolino trains, which run between London, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow.

Health and safety representatives from Aslef told drivers not to turn up at the depot until the snow was cleared because the site was unsafe to walk around, a railway insider claimed.

The insider said: “Edge Hill depot [was] not gritted last night. All walkways covered in snow/ice and therefore no trains are able to leave as there’s no safe walking routes for drivers.”

An Aslef spokesman said: “The walkways were covered in snow and ice, making them unusable. Once they had been cleared, the drivers could access their trains and did so. This is basic safety stuff.”

The spokesman dismissed suggestions that health and safety representatives had been “over-reaching” and instead claimed Avanti was to blame.

But Gareth Bacon, the Conservatives’ shadow transport secretary, said: “Just who is running our railways under this Government? It’s obvious who they’re being run for: the unions,” he said. “Labour needs to stop allowing their union paymasters to call the shots.”

Severe winter weather across the UK on the weekend caused major disruption, with hundreds of homes being left without power and vehicles becoming stranded on snow-hit roads.

The Environment Agency issued 28 flood warnings for large parts of Southern England as well as major rivers such as the Avon and the Taw in Devon.

The snowfall was so heavy that it forced Liverpool and Manchester airports to close their runways on Sunday morning. Both hubs had reopened by 10.15am, around two hours before trains began moving out of Edge Hill.

Refusal of train drivers to walk on snowy walkways is the latest in a list of so-called “Spanish practices” employed by unions that can reduce the amount of work done by their members.

One policy, dating from the 1980s, reportedly said: “All staff working with microwave ovens shall be permitted to take time off from work, with pay, for a medical check of any effects on them from the microwave ovens.”

Another practice consists of restarting scheduled breaks whenever passing bosses greet staff on their downtime.

Avanti declined to comment, but a spokesman said the Liverpool Lime Street train depot is run by Alstom. A spokesman for the train manufacturer said a contractor had to be called back to the depot to clear the walkways after routine scheduled treatment was carried out before the snowfall.

 

[railways80]

Irony when you've been posting about applying for a trainee driver job 'six times'

Solid principles there

Yes, if someone wants to become a guard or driver, at least have pride in your job (like i would) Don't just go in that job for the fun of it. do you think we would of had people like this in the 50s, 60s, and 70s???

 

[tram21]

Since the general message today is "stay at home and do not travel unless necessary" can we get a refund on advance tickets?

I would imagine so. Apply for a refund to the retailer you bought your ticket from, I'd imagine they'll say say.

 

[Spaceflower]

Yes, if someone wants to become a guard or driver, at least have pride in your job (like i would) Don't just go in that job for the fun of it. do you think we would of had people like this in the 50s, 60s, and 70s???

I'm going to take a punt on this but I suspect that you've been fortunate so far..........

 

[Tractor2018]

Your talking about safety here, in a train depot, where the floor and walking routes are probably anti-slip mats anyway.

I see the depots you visit are very much different to the ones I visit. You're lucky.

I'm telling you

I think everybody hears you. But don't be surprised when you encounter people that think for themselves.

 

[JordR]

do you think we would of had people like this in the 50s, 60s, and 70s???

Ah yes, the days when the fatal workplace accident rate was more than quadruple what it is now?

 

[Spaceflower]

Yes, if someone wants to become a guard or driver, at least have pride in your job (like i would) Don't just go in that job for the fun of it. do you think we would of had people like this in the 50s, 60s, and 70s???

Where in Durham are you? What depots have you been applying to?

 

[P156KWJ]

Where in Durham are you? What depots have you been applying to?

It must be difficult to find a depot that will let you fit shifts in around school time in fairness

 

[D6130]

Modern point motors are fitted with point locks regardless of whether they are on facing or trailing points, so there should be no requirement to clip them. Signaller's permission (maybe MOM's as well?) should be sufficient.

That's all very well and good....but the Hope Valley Line is mechanically-signalled with Absolute Block working and - although I'm open to correction - I would imagine that the crossover points at Grindleford will still be mechanically-worked.

Trains were cancelled, especially Avanti WC, because their drivers "did not want to walk on snow." Radicicolous, i know. Especially when they are on a £55,000-£73,500 salary and are off protesting most of the year anyways, i feel sorry for the passengers and lorry drivers. The real people who have to brave the elements, the passengers, for a service that isn't going to show up because...… ASLEF is afraid of some snow at a depot

What a load of tripe! As a (now-retired) ASLEF member of 35 years standing, I can assure you that when the chips are down - especially weather wise - the vast majority of drivers would go above and beyond the call of duty to get stranded passengers to where they need to be. Don't believe everything you read in the right wing tabloids. I've walked through deep snow up to my b*ll*cks to remote signalboxes on the Settle & Carlisle line in order to carry out the rules & regulations and expedite the flow of traffic!

 

[IanXC]

That's all very well and good....but the Hope Valley Line is mechanically-signalled with Absolute Block working and - although I'm open to correction - I would imagine that the crossover points at Grindleford will still be mechanically-worked.

From the east as far as Bamford the Hope Valley is signalled via a modern workstation at York ROC.

 

[gshock]

Today also brought merriment between Leeds and Sheffield.

Rotherham was flooded so the diversionary Main Line route was taken from Aldwarke down to Holmes Jn (Masborough).

Would have been simple but a signal became defective on there.. and had to be passed at danger with authority.
I did it on two trips.

Prior to the offending signal, I was literally moving peg to peg (from Swinton). Took a good while.

Usually the non-Rotherham way saves time, but it never rains (or snows).. it pours.

 

[MikeWM]

Disruption continuing into tomorrow morning, EMR have diverted 0456 and 0607 Nottingham to Norwich to avoid the route via Oakham.

Maybe I've forgotten something from the past, but Leicester-Peterborough doesn't feel like a route that is on the list of usual suspects to flood when it rains heavily (*cough* Hooton-Chester *cough*). Is this as unusual as it seems?

 

[liamf656]

Maybe I've forgotten something from the past, but Leicester-Peterborough doesn't feel like a route that is on the list of usual suspects to flood when it rains heavily (*cough* Hooton-Chester *cough*). Is this as unusual as it seems?

It has in the past (2nd January 2024 and example), but someone mentioned upthread that it was actually due to signal box staff being unable to make it into work. How true that is I don't know

 

[dangie]

…. In any case, if the safe walking route isn't safe to walk on why should anyone risk injury?

Because as grown sensible adults we should be able to take personal care and precautions during winter weather without having someone create us a safe route. We all know snow & ice are slippery. Just take care.

 

[MikeWM]

It has in the past (2nd January 2024 and example),

Ah, I'd entirely forgotten about that storm, even though I posted about it at the time! From other posts on here it looks like trains were still running then though, albeit under severe speed restrictions.

but someone mentioned upthread that it was actually due to signal box staff being unable to make it into work. How true that is I don't know

Looking around the media I see parts of Leicestershire have really struggled with flooding today, so I guess that is plausible. Fortunately (for me at least) the worst of the rain didn't get this far east.

 

[D6130]

From the east as far as Bamford the Hope Valley is signalled via a modern workstation at York ROC.

Thanks for the update. It's obviously changed since my last trip along there!

 

[Mag_seven]

If anyone has any issues travelling by train in the wintry weather and they require advice then please post in the Trip Planning and Reports section.

Thanks all.