Smart card peak hour query

[riceuten]

Please move this elsewhere if this is not the correct forum.

In London, and possibly elsewhere, the Key Smartcard (or equivalent) has been a real boon for me - no more queuing up at machines or ticket desks, no more having to decide which is the cheapest fare.

However, I've come across an issue that may just be confined to certain trains and certain operators. I have a Senior Railcard attached to my Key card - enabled by the delightfully Heath Robinsonesque action of sending a high definition photo of the Railcard to the GTR customer services team. Generally, it works well. However, as the railcard discount is only valid from 9.30am to 4pm, and from 7pm onwards, there are occasions where if I am catching a train at bang on 9.30am - a regular occurrence, or the 19.01 train from London Bridge, if you tap in prior at 9.29am or at 6.59pm, the discount is not applied. There are ways round this - buying a QR coded ticket - at Stevenage Station anyway, seems to give you 10 or so minutes grace to access the platform for the London bound train. But that's not the point.

I can see difficulties with designing a system that takes account of this - do colleagues know another way around this conundrum?

 

[Watershed]

Please move this elsewhere if this is not the correct forum.

In London, and possibly elsewhere, the Key Smartcard (or equivalent) has been a real boon for me - no more queuing up at machines or ticket desks, no more having to decide which is the cheapest fare.

However, I've come across an issue that may just be confined to certain trains and certain operators. I have a Senior Railcard attached to my Key card - enabled by the delightfully Heath Robinsonesque action of sending a high definition photo of the Railcard to the GTR customer services team. Generally, it works well. However, as the railcard discount is only valid from 9.30am to 4pm, and from 7pm onwards, there are occasions where if I am catching a train at bang on 9.30am - a regular occurrence, or the 19.01 train from London Bridge, if you tap in prior at 9.29am or at 6.59pm, the discount is not applied. There are ways round this - buying a QR coded ticket - at Stevenage Station anyway, seems to give you 10 or so minutes grace to access the platform for the London bound train. But that's not the point.

I can see difficulties with designing a system that takes account of this - do colleagues know another way around this conundrum?

The system behind KeyGo reconstructs your journey history based on your taps, to work out which trains you are likely to have taken. Therefore the exact time you touch in shouldn't matter - because it should be able to work out that you took a train departing at 09:30, which in turn would be eligible for off-peak PAYG fares. Has your experience been that you've been charged a peak fare for taking a 09:30 train? If so, I think that's worth raising with GTR.

There is a small leeway if you're using Oyster or contactless PAYG, whereby off-peak fares are actually charged between 09:27-16:05 and from 18:57. These systems aren't smart and don't try to reconstruct your journey history. The charges applied purely depend on the time at which you touch in. So depending on what GTR say about KeyGo, there might be some edge-case scenarios where it is better to use an Oyster card with your Railcard applied.

 

[riceuten]

The system behind KeyGo reconstructs your journey history based on your taps, to work out which trains you are likely to have taken. Therefore the exact time you touch in shouldn't matter - because it should be able to work out that you took a train departing at 09:30, which in turn would be eligible for off-peak PAYG fares. Has your experience been that you've been charged a peak fare for taking a 09:30 train? If so, I think that's worth raising with GTR.

There is a small leeway if you're using Oyster or contactless PAYG, whereby off-peak fares are actually charged between 09:27-16:05 and from 18:57. These systems aren't smart and don't try to reconstruct your journey history. The charges applied purely depend on the time at which you touch in. So depending on what GTR say about KeyGo, there might be some edge-case scenarios where it is better to use an Oyster card with your Railcard applied.

Thanks for this, I will query this. I can't use Oyster from London Bridge to Stevenage with a Senior Railcard applied, it seems. Maybe in the future

 

[Watershed]

Thanks for this, I will query this. I can't use Oyster from London Bridge to Stevenage with a Senior Railcard applied, it seems. Maybe in the future

Ah yes, Oyster isn't valid that far unfortunately. However this is a Project Oval route where you can buy an eTicket or paper ticket at the same price as what KeyGo PAYG would (or should) charge. Obviously there's the convenience factor of not needing to buy a ticket ahead of time but it's worth considering if GTR claim that KeyGo is working 'correctly' by charging you a peak PAYG fare to travel on the 09:30 service.

 

[Haywain]

However, as the railcard discount is only valid from 9.30am to 4pm, and from 7pm onwards,

I don't know where you get the idea that you can't use a railcard between 4pm and 7pm. That's simply not true, and KeyGo will charge you the applicable fare for your journey. If you are travelling from London Bridge to Stevenage between 4pm and 7pm it will charge you the Anytime Day Single fare with a railcard discount applied. KeyGo does apply railcard discounts to Off Peak contactless fares, and where the fares are 'ovalised' will do so to the 'paper' fares even if not to the contactless fare, although they are identically priced.

In my experience, the touch in time is applied to contactless fares in exactly the same way as if one were using a contactless card, but the 'paper' fare will be charged if that is preferable. So a touch in at London Bridge that leads to you using a train after 19:00 should see you being charged the Off Peak fare, regardless of exact touch in time.

 

[riceuten]

I don't know where you get the idea that you can't use a railcard between 4pm and 7pm. That's simply not true, and KeyGo will charge you the applicable fare for your journey. If you are travelling from London Bridge to Stevenage between 4pm and 7pm it will charge you the Anytime Day Single fare with a railcard discount applied. KeyGo does apply railcard discounts to Off Peak contactless fares, and where the fares are 'ovalised' will do so to the 'paper' fares even if not to the contactless fare, although they are identically priced.

In my experience, the touch in time is applied to contactless fares in exactly the same way as if one were using a contactless card, but the 'paper' fare will be charged if that is preferable. So a touch in at London Bridge that leads to you using a train after 19:00 should see you being charged the Off Peak fare, regardless of exact touch in time.

I meant the off-peak fare, which does not cut in until 7pm