Sleeping at the station

[Darandio]

There really is nothing to debate here!

I don't see the OP debating anything, they were asking a question.

 

[Antman]

In days of old tipping some of the contents of a fire bucket (the ones with water in them) used to encourage the blighters to shift - highly 'not allowed' in these more 'enlightened' times I'm sure.

Likely to result in an assault charge nowadays and quite rightly so.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Likely to result in an assault charge nowadays and quite rightly so.

... so let the stations get full of undesirables to make your journey home pleasanter then.

let people sleep, puke up, kick **** out of you, rob you - it's their right isn't it ?

 

[railler]

Thanks, but what are you doing with people who don't have ticket? Do you issue a fine or other people do that? Do you ask them to buy a ticket and that's all or do you call the police immediately?

 

[EM2]

Thanks, but what are you doing with people who don't have ticket? Do you issue a fine or other people do that? Do you ask them to buy a ticket and that's all or do you call the police immediately?

You apply the 'three fails'.
When a person

• Fails to produce a ticket when requested.
• Fails to purchase a ticket when requested (whether they have funds or not).
• Fails to supply a name and address.

If all three of these occur, then an offence is committed and police can be called.

 

[rebmcr]

... so let the stations get full of undesirables to make your journey home pleasanter then.

let people sleep, puke up, kick **** out of you, rob you - it's their right isn't it ?

That's only applicable if all such people are aggressive (they're not).

I suspect you're fully aware of this and just using intolerant rhetoric.

 

[ModernRailways]

I'm not sure about LU but on the TW Metro we have to make sure the stations are clear of the general public. If someone is there we would simply say 'The station is closing for the night, so I need to ask you to make your way out of the station, please. Then it will depend on their reaction. Most will just leave the station, but you do get the odd one who gets aggressive in which case the police are called.

 

[Antman]

... so let the stations get full of undesirables to make your journey home pleasanter then.

let people sleep, puke up, kick **** out of you, rob you - it's their right isn't it ?

No but two wrongs don't make a right. Anybody who thinks that their job gives them the right to assault people is ten times worse!

 

[Antman]

I'm not sure about LU but on the TW Metro we have to make sure the stations are clear of the general public. If someone is there we would simply say 'The station is closing for the night, so I need to ask you to make your way out of the station, please. Then it will depend on their reaction. Most will just leave the station, but you do get the odd one who gets aggressive in which case the police are called.

Which is surely the correct way of dealing with it?

 

[Tetchytyke]

... so let the stations get full of undesirables to make your journey home pleasanter then.

let people sleep, puke up, kick **** out of you, rob you - it's their right isn't it ?

No, you call Mr Policeman out (other genders are available) and let him deal with it.

Not least because chucking water over someone is more, not less, likely to see them react noisily and aggressively.

Never understood the pond life who go around assaulting, or even urinating, on street sleepers.

 

[philthetube]

No LU managed stations are scheduled to be unstaffed overnight, there is at least one member of staff on rostered to be on duty at all LU managed stations 24/7, except at Christmas.

I won't mention where but at least one station is unstaffed at night, and others are occasionally because of lack of available staff.

 

[Tubeboy]

I won't mention where but at least one station is unstaffed at night, and others are occasionally because of lack of available staff.

At close of traffic, the supervisor at the next station along gets a taxi to close and lock up the station, after checking it of course. Station is then opened again in the morning.

 

[philthetube]

At close of traffic, the supervisor at the next station along gets a taxi to close and lock up the station, after checking it of course. Station is then opened again in the morning.

That is good in theory but it is not unknown for stations to be forgotten in the morning and train staff to have conversations with passengers through the railings

 

[matt_world2004]

Tfl produce reports on rough sleeping on the network. Occasionally there are revenue blocks to specifically target rough sleepers which involve immigration,police and RPIs and people from st mungos /street link.most rough sleepers have valid tickets however.

I believe the procedure for a rough sleeper is to rouse them without touching them. If they do not rouse the first time . you get a second member of staff to help you. You then give them a light tap to try and rouse them. If they then refuse to leave you threaten to get the BTP . this has delayed station closures

Most rough sleepers recognise the presence of multiple staff as an escalation and will leave of their own accord at that point.

There are also easier places to sleep in london than the tube network

 

[Tubeboy]

That is good in theory but it is not unknown for stations to be forgotten in the morning and train staff to have conversations with passengers through the railings

They're rare isolated incidents.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

No, you call Mr Policeman out (other genders are available) and let him deal with it.

.

In your fantasy Camberwick Green world maybe. The BTP don't have the best of response times and someone refusing to get off a train ain't going to be high on the priority on a Saturday night for the Met to come and deal with.

 

[DavyCrocket]

In your fantasy Camberwick Green world maybe. The BTP don't have the best of response times and someone refusing to get off a train ain't going to be high on the priority on a Saturday night for the Met to come and deal with.

This would usually be graded by BTP as an immediate response and officers would get there quickly. Even on a Friday night.

 

[ModernRailways]

In your fantasy Camberwick Green world maybe. The BTP don't have the best of response times and someone refusing to get off a train ain't going to be high on the priority on a Saturday night for the Met to come and deal with.

As DavyCrocket says something like this gets a quick response. Possibly due to the fact if the person is refusing then the situation will likely escalate. I know it's like that up here on our Metro, so I'd guess London will be the same.

 

[Brunel 1954]

When I worked in the Travel Centre at Plymouth Station during the mid to late 1970's the policy was that either the BT Police or the Station Supervisor would make patrols of the station at night. If anyone was found sleeping rough they would be gently woken up and if they had a valid rail ticket they were allowed to stay on the premises. If not, they were escorted off the premises.

 

[Bromley boy]

A much bigger problem than rough sleepers, who mostly know the score and are compliant, is people who pass out drunk, miss their stop and wake up at the train's final destination only to discover there are no services going back up. Often they are less than willing to leave when they realise it's a £50 cab fare home.

Platform staff are pretty adept at waking them up, often by shaking them! This is why, on my patch, trains are locked out by teams of 2. This provides protection and also a witness in case any allegations are made.

 

[philthetube]

Especially at Chesham when the conversation usually goes something like this.

What time is the next train? tomorrow morning
Where can I catch a night bus from? There are none.
Is there a taxi rank? Yes but it will cost you around £80 to get to the nearest night bus.
Can I sleep here? No Sorry.

 

[theageofthetra]

The last couple of problem pax I have had were removed by REO's (Revenue Enforcement Officers). I think they have similar powers to PCSO's or whatever they are called.

 

[pitdiver]

Especially at Chesham when the conversation usually goes something like this.

What time is the next train? tomorrow morning
Where can I catch a night bus from? There are none.
Is there a taxi rank? Yes but it will cost you around £80 to get to the nearest night bus.
Can I sleep here? No Sorry.

A similar situation existed at Watford Met when I worked there. However there was a taxi office was next door but It would be quite expensive particularly for passengers getting off the last N/B on Christmas Eve/ Christmas Day night/morning. Specially if they had wanted to get back to somewhere like Pinner or North Harrow.

 

[Antman]

The last couple of problem pax I have had were removed by REO's (Revenue Enforcement Officers). I think they have similar powers to PCSO's or whatever they are called.

I don't think REO's/PCSO's actually have any more powers than a member of the public? They often have to call the 'real police'.

 

[ModernRailways]

I don't think REO's/PCSO's actually have any more powers than a member of the public? They often have to call the 'real police'.

It differs from area to area but for the most part PCSOs just have the same powers as a civilian and are only meant as a community thing.

REOs will have those powers as do all other frontline staff, and the person you're trying to throw off the train will also have those powers. PCSOs do, as I say, get some additional powers depending on area.

If the person refuses to leave the train the 'real police' (constables) would need to attend. If the REO/PCSOs are using force to remove people then they aren't doing their job correctly.

 

[DavyCrocket]

It differs from area to area but for the most part PCSOs just have the same powers as a civilian and are only meant as a community thing.

REOs will have those powers as do all other frontline staff, and the person you're trying to throw off the train will also have those powers. PCSOs do, as I say, get some additional powers depending on area.

If the person refuses to leave the train the 'real police' (constables) would need to attend. If the REO/PCSOs are using force to remove people then they aren't doing their job correctly.

The bylaws allow use of force by staff or an agent of the operator to stop a bylaw breach from occurring or where they believe that a breach will reoccur.

Though there is no input training on use of force.

So if someone is refusing to leave an area, a member of staff can tell them in simple terms what the bylaw breach is (loitering) that they can ask for their name and address and that they should leave the station.
If they refuse to leave, there is then a power to use reasonable force to stop the bylaw from occurring - removal.

 

[ModernRailways]

The bylaws allow use of force by staff or an agent of the operator to stop a bylaw breach from occurring or where they believe that a breach will reoccur.

Though there is no input training on use of force.

So if someone is refusing to leave an area, a member of staff can tell them in simple terms what the bylaw breach is (loitering) that they can ask for their name and address and that they should leave the station.
If they refuse to leave, there is then a power to use reasonable force to stop the bylaw from occurring - removal.

That's different from up here then, we're completely hands off, and must request police assistance.