Sicily and back - when can I book seats?

[Chris Butler]

I’m planning a trip to Sicily and Apulia in September using a 1st Class InterRail pass. I’ve checked The Man in Seat 61’s advice on booking and reserving seats. The information out there on how far in advance reservations can be made is very vague and I’d appreciate any info on people’s experience as to the date from when it’s worth checking online for reservations opening up.

Any other input on the booking process gratefully received.

The services I plan to use are:-

• Eurostar: London <-> Paris
• TGV SNCF: Paris -> Milan
• FS Frecciarossa: Milan -> Naples and Bari -> Milan
• FS InterCity: Naples -> Syracuse and Syracuse -> Bari
• EuroCity: Milan -> Zurich
• TGV Lyria: Zurich -> Paris

Thanks in advance.

 

[nwales58]

Trenitalia is 6 months-ish.
On sncf-connect you can register for an email when the date you want becomes bookable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==

Others experience may differ. I'd treat the Frecce as walk-up, book when you're there. The Naples-Sicily I'd book ahead. Milan-Zurich I'd use the R80 and change at Lugano, saves Eur13 and same journey time generally. Avoid the 'ouch' Lyria supplement (especially in 1st) by joining at Mulhouse for the Eur10 domestic supplement, or TER to Strasbourg then TGV for the Est-Nord short walk in Paris.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Trenitalia seems a bit erratic, with some Frecce showing up for booking a couple of weeks before IC services for the same date. I've been booking for Sicily too, and didn't have any problems, just kept checking every week or so.

 

[rvdborgt]

Eurostar: 6-8 months.
SNCF (including Lyria): check here
Trenitalia (including Milan-Zurich): roughly between 2 and 6 months, or whenever they feel like it. Night trains and trains from/to Sicily often relatively late.
Milan-Zurich can be done reservation-free by changing in Lugano. It takes the same time. Or you can save €3 by booking only the mandatory section to Chiasso.
All reservations mentioned can be done on raileurope.com. Always change currency to euros, or else you'll be paying 4-5% more.

 

[30907]

Just to add that booking months in advance is not necessary, except that IME 1st class (Plus) on Eurostar to Paris on busy days (eg Fridays) sell out a few weeks ahead.

 

[Chris Butler]

All reservations mentioned can be done on raileurope.com. Always change currency to euros, or else you'll be paying 4-5% more.

Thanks for your detailed info, but can Interrail bookings really be made on raileurope.com ? I can't see how.

Just to add that booking months in advance is not necessary, except that IME 1st class (Plus) on Eurostar to Paris on busy days (eg Fridays) sell out a few weeks ahead.

Did you pick up that I'm travelling on an Interrail pass? I thought that there was an Interrail quota on many trains so that non Interrail seat could be available after the Interrail ones have all gone ?

 

[JB_B]

Thanks for your detailed info, but can Interrail bookings really be made on raileurope.com ? I can't see how.

Below where it asks for your origin and destination ( on the Train Tickets tab) click "Add Rail Pass". Once you've added your pass, the search results will show the reservation fee only ( where available.) There was a period last year - for me at least - when that only seemed available on the desktop site but that seems to be fixed now.

Did you pick up that I'm travelling on an Interrail pass? I thought that there was an Interrail quota on many trains so that non Interrail seat could be available after the Interrail ones have all gone ?

For Italy, I don't know if there's a quota but for multiple IC and Freccia legs in Italy last June we just booked our Interrail (1st class) reservations at the station shortly before travel and never had a problem.

 

[rvdborgt]

Below where it asks for your origin and destination ( on the Train Tickets tab) click "Add Rail Pass". Once you've added your pass, the search results will show the reservation fee only ( where available.) There was a period last year - for me at least - when that only seemed available on the desktop site but that seems to be fixed now.

"Add rail pass" is still not available in the iPhone app AFAIK.

For Italy, I don't know if there's a quota but for multiple IC and Freccia legs in Italy last June we just booked our Interrail (1st class) reservations at the station shortly before travel and never had a problem.

Trenitalia don't have pass holder quota (only Eurostar (all routes) and TGV from/to Brussels). Not all Frecce classes can be used with a pass though.

 

[Chris Butler]

Below where it asks for your origin and destination ( on the Train Tickets tab) click "Add Rail Pass".

That's what I tried... except, I didn't !! I clicked Railcard instead of Rail Pass. Thanks for persevering with me.

For Italy, I don't know if there's a quota but for multiple IC and Freccia legs in Italy last June we just booked our Interrail (1st class) reservations at the station shortly before travel and never had a problem.

Trenitalia don't have pass holder quota (only Eurostar (all routes) and TGV from/to Brussels). Not all Frecce classes can be used with a pass though

Thanks both. It's really the Lecce - Milan leg that I was concerned about since there's only (I think) one FrecciaRossa a day and we're changing in Milan rather than staying there.

If there's any other advice that I might have missed, it would be much appreciated. I've travelled on trains all over the world (not so much in Europe though) and read Seat 61 thoroughly, but there may be more to learn !

 

[30907]

Did you pick up that I'm travelling on an Interrail pass? I thought that there was an Interrail quota on many trains so that non Interrail seat could be available after the Interrail ones have all gone ?

Yes, I was specifically referring to IR quotas, as that's what I have experience of.

It's really the Lecce - Milan leg that I was concerned about since there's only (I think) one FrecciaRossa a day and we're changing in Milan rather than staying there.

They're every 2 hours according to the planner.
BTW Bari to Milan to Zurich is a very long journey, if that's the plan.

 

[Chris Butler]

They're every 2 hours according to the planner.
BTW Bari to Milan to Zurich is a very long journey, if that's the plan.

It's a Sunday. Sorry not to make that clear.

It's overnight in Milan, so two days from Lecce to London via Zurich. It's the length of journey that made me concerned to make sure I get to Milan as early as possible. With your input and the other input that the FrecciaRossa don't restrict IR availability, it looks more secure to get a good rest in Milan.

Thanks again.

 

[nwales58]

It's really the Lecce - Milan leg that I was concerned about since there's only (I think) one FrecciaRossa a day and we're changing in Milan rather than staying there.

They're every 2 hours according to the planner.
BTW Bari to Milan to Zurich is a very long journey, if that's the plan.

It's a Sunday. Sorry not to make that clear.

It's overnight in Milan, so two days from Lecce to London via Zurich. It's the length of journey that made me concerned to make sure I get to Milan as early as possible. With your input and the other input that the FrecciaRossa don't restrict IR availability, it looks more secure to get a good rest in Milan.

For September, the full timetable may not be in yet if you're only seeing one Frecce. However it could change before then anyway, for instance last autumn I had to work around weekend closures Foggia-Termoli which weren't there when I first planned.

Lecce-Milan is about 9h so you could drift on as far as Lugano, hotels can be cheaper than in central Milan despite swiss prices (Continental Parkhotel and another near the station, Ibis Novotel and others near Paradiso, previous stop on the R80).

Also you don't have to go through Zürich. Chiasso/Lugano-Basel is now a superb 2 trains per hour and the through ones run via Luzern. TER Basel-Mulhouse then you only pay a Eur10 domestic TGV supplement rather than the Lyria 40+(?) in first from Switzerland. Milan-Lugano on the R80 avoids the italian Eur13 supplement and is just as fast.

 

[rvdborgt]

TER Basel-Mulhouse then you only pay a Eur10 domestic TGV supplement rather than the Lyria 40+(?) in first from Switzerland. Milan-Lugano on the R80 avoids the italian Eur13 supplement and is just as fast.

TGV Lyria has gone down from infuriatingly expensive (1st class €68) to expensive (1st class €39, 2nd €29). The domestic TGV reservation is €10 or €20, depending on availability.

 

[Gordon]

Just to second comments about the Swiss leg. Use walk on trains (just like the InterRail of old - yeah) from the first point your journey will meet Swiss trains (Milano) as far as the last point where your trip will use Swiss trains (Basel). I wonder if you have made the common tourists error of assuming that to get a TGV to Paris from northern Switzerland you have to go to the starting point (Zurich), when in fact the train just runs East across Switzerland to Basel before heading north (and it is not unknown for the Basel -Zurich - Basel leg to be caped anyway and replaced with an 'ersatzzug' (emergency replacement train) .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2025 ==

Another option is Milano - Locarno (stay at the Ibis); route IR26 train 'Treno Gottardo' Locarno - Gotthard mountain route (spirals, Wassen church et al) - Olten; EC 6 loco hauled Eurocity Olten - Basel SBB - Karlsruhe; TGV or ICE Karlsruhe - Paris Est

 

[Chris Butler]

Milan-Zurich can be done reservation-free by changing in Lugano. It takes the same time. Or you can save €3 by booking only the mandatory section to Chiasso.
All reservations mentioned can be done on raileurope.com. Always change currency to euros, or else you'll be paying 4-5% more.

Also you don't have to go through Zürich. Chiasso/Lugano-Basel is now a superb 2 trains per hour and the through ones run via Luzern. TER Basel-Mulhouse then you only pay a Eur10 domestic TGV supplement rather than the Lyria 40+(?) in first from Switzerland. Milan-Lugano on the R80 avoids the italian Eur13 supplement and is just as fast.

Just to second comments about the Swiss leg. Use walk on trains (just like the InterRail of old - yeah) from the first point your journey will meet Swiss trains (Milano) as far as the last point where your trip will use Swiss trains (Basel). I wonder if you have made the common tourists error of assuming that to get a TGV to Paris from northern Switzerland you have to go to the starting point (Zurich), when in fact the train just runs East across Switzerland to Basel before heading north (and it is not unknown for the Basel -Zurich - Basel leg to be caped anyway and replaced with an 'ersatzzug' (emergency replacement train) .

Another option is Milano - Locarno (stay at the Ibis); route IR26 train 'Treno Gottardo' Locarno - Gotthard mountain route (spirals, Wassen church et al) - Olten; EC 6 loco hauled Eurocity Olten - Basel SBB - Karlsruhe; TGV or ICE Karlsruhe - Paris Est

I want to do the Milan - Switzerland journey in daylight (for the scenery) and the day is going to end on Eurostar to London. I had considered changing onto the Lyria at either Zurich or Basel. Since this is a holiday trip with my better half, the fewer changes and more relaxed boarding at the terminus tipped the plan to Zurich. Depending on the exact timings in this September's timetable, that might change.

But what I hadn't considered is going on to Strasbourg instead of taking the Lyria and thereby arriving at Gare de l'Est instead of Gare de Lyon. Thanks to you all for opening my eyes to the further options from Basel.

Taking that idea further, the timings seem to work to get a TGV from Strasbourg to Brussels instead of to Paris and change at Lille Europe into Eurostar. That is attractive for the easy changes, and especially if we can get a direct Milan - Basel train. EC 60 fits the bill, but goes via the Simplon (I think) and I know that there is a prolonged period of work on that tunnel but I have no idea how disruptive it is likely to be.

Finally the old Gotthard route is very appealing, but I don't think it can be done as part of a daytime Milan -London journey.

So, thanks to you all.Any further thoughts, info or suggestions are very welcome.

 

[Route115?]

You can certainly do the Gotthard mountain line as part of a day trip. You just have to allow an hour longer and change trains at Bellinzona. You'll have to start very eary & travel in June if you want it to be light when you arrive. Its better to do it northbound as the time change works in your favour. I don't know how the ticketing works if you use a point to point ticket - I have used Interrail / Swiss passes which works well.

If you have an extra day you could break your journey Cologne or Frankfurt - hotel prices are reasonable. Germany is less hassle than France when using interrail (but don't expect the trains to run on time).

 

[30907]

Taking that idea further, the timings seem to work to get a TGV from Strasbourg to Brussels instead of to Paris and change at Lille Europe into Eurostar. That is attractive for the easy changes, and especially if we can get a direct Milan - Basel train. EC 60 fits the bill, but goes via the Simplon (I think) and I know that there is a prolonged period of work on that tunnel but I have no idea how disruptive it is likely to be.

Milan to Domo is closed most of the summer except August.

Finally the old Gotthard route is very appealing, but I don't think it can be done as part of a daytime Milan -London journey.

So long as you don't mind a late arrival in STP (eg the evening via Lille service) it seems eminently doable with an 0743 from Milan

 

[Chris Butler]

You can certainly do the Gotthard mountain line as part of a day trip. You just have to allow an hour longer and change trains at Bellinzona. You'll have to start very eary & travel in June if you want it to be light when you arrive. Its better to do it northbound as the time change works in your favour.

So long as you don't mind a late arrival in STP (eg the evening via Lille service) it seems eminently doable with an 0743 from Milan

For the second time the forum has opened my eyes to possibilities that I hadn't considered. Thanks.

I'd assumed that the old Gotthard route was now a 'diversionary' route with a minimal passenger service. Anyway, based on the current timetable it looks like both the Old Gotthard and Strasbourg to Lille services can indeed be combined as shown below.

My last (maybe !) question is: Would that routing likely still work on October 3rd (sunrise at 07:22) or is the winter timetable a lot different?

Eurocity #12
08:10 Milan Centrale
09:46 Bellinzona

InterRegio #2320
09:59 Bellinzona
13:56 Basel SBB

TER #96228
15:21 Basel SBB
16:39 Strasbourg

TGV INOUI #9894
17:01 Strasbourg
20:16 Lille Europe

Eurostar #9165
21:35 Lille Europe
21:57 London St. Pancras International

 

[30907]

For the second time the forum has opened my eyes to possibilities that I hadn't considered. Thanks.

I'd assumed that the old Gotthard route was now a 'diversionary' route with a minimal passenger service.

It was initially, but the Swiss realised here was a market for a decent service

Anyway, based on the current timetable it looks like both the Old Gotthard and Strasbourg to Lille services can indeed be combined as shown below.

My last (maybe !) question is: Would that routing likely still work on October 3rd (sunrise 0722)?

Yes - the service is all year.

BTW you can save the EC reservation fee by getting up slightly earlier and using the regional train.

 

[signed]

TER Basel-Mulhouse then you only pay a Eur10 domestic TGV supplement rather than the Lyria 40+(?) in first from Switzerland.

Note that there are much more connections going up on that TER up to Strasbourg.

With Paris being only 1h30 from Strasbourg (because LGV) as opposed from 3h from Mulhouse.

 

[ainsworth74]

Reopened for @Chris Butler to post an update.

 

[Chris Butler]

So, with thanks to those who helped me above and for the benefit of others who may refer to this thread, I successfully managed to return from Milan to London in one day using both:-

1. The former Gotthard route and tunnel through the Gotthard Pass (instead of using the Gotthard Base Tunnel), and
2. Returning using the Strasbourg-Lille TGV, avoiding the need to cross Paris.
   

A few comments to add to those above:-

• The Locarno to Basle service (which you join at Bellinzona if you come from Milan) is operated by Sud Ost Bahn in a joint venture with SBB.
• The Stadler FLIRTs used are very good and the windows are large enough to enjoy the scenery. See photo.

• The connection between Basel SBB and Strasbourg leaves from the 30-35 numbered platforms which form a (quite basic) station attached to the side of the main station.
• In our case the traction was a BB26000 "Sybic" which gave a sprightly 120mph performance on what I'd expected to be a more leisurely shuttle service. I think that is the standard motive power.
• The Strasbourg-Lille TGV is attached to a Strasbourg-Nantes TGV and the two separate at (I think) Paris-Charles de Gaulle.
• The service stops at a number of those minor LGV stations that you normally fly through. The station stops are quite long because it is overtaken by one or two TCVs/ICEs at each of those stations.

 

[MarcVD]

• In our case the traction was a BB26000 "Sybic" which gave a sprightly 120mph performance on what I'd expected to be a more leisurely shuttle service. I think that is the standard motive power.

Yes it is the standard motive power. This service is branded TER200 because it reaches 200 km/h for a good part of its length. It is hourly, too, which is far to be the case on many French TGV services. And it still uses SNCF corail stock, in push-pull formations, a good opportunity to try them a last time before they vanish.

 

[nwales58]

TER Grand Est region services are more frequent and clock-face than usual in France. The region wanted a frequency increase which went pear-shaped but now seems to work. Strasbourg-Mulhouse is now half-hourly I think.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The Locarno to Basle service (which you join at Bellinzona if you come from Milan) is operated by Sud Ost Bahn in a joint venture with SBB.
The Stadler FLIRTs used are very good

Did you find the vending machine section (including nice coffee)?

The connection between Basel SBB and Strasbourg leaves from the 30-35 numbered platforms which form a (quite basic) station attached to the side of the main station.

The French side of the station, where there are border control facilities, rarely used any more.

 

[rvdborgt]

TER Grand Est region services are more frequent and clock-face than usual in France. The region wanted a frequency increase which went pear-shaped but now seems to work. Strasbourg-Mulhouse is now half-hourly I think.

Basel-Strasbourg is half-hourly on weekdays, except for 2 gaps because France.

 

[Chris Butler]

Did you find the vending machine section (including nice coffee)?

The French side of the station, where there are border control facilities, rarely used any more.

We didn't need to use it since we left right after breakfast and lunched in Basel, but I directed two pairs of American travellers too it and they were impressed ... especially with it vending beer !

Yes, exactly, the French station. It looked to me like it was the standard station for the half hourly TER2000 service but nothing else.