Should we move the capital?

[renegademaster]

London needs to be turned into a new fifth home nation, also remaining as the UK capital, as Greater London practically has become its own country as it has grown & changed so much so it doesn't really represent the rest of England like New York City doesn't for the rest of the US.

I am not sure about a huge sprawling city like Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham etc as the new English capital. It could grow much larger and forming its own identity like London has already repeating this problem.

I feel a older & smaller town/city such as Stratford upon Avon, Warwick, Lichfield, Shrewsbury, Worcester, Hereford etc may be more suitable for the new English capital as these are more English in character also would be attractive for tourism, nicer for spending a weekend than somewhere like an urban concrete jungle like York/Bath over Leeds/Swindon.

As a Londoner, please no, City hall already has a big enough ego

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2023 ==

Ah but remember that Washington DC, although the capital of the United States is not in any of the United States - it is a federal district, so shifting it would require major changes to their constitution.

I really don't see why the Houses of Parliament need to be in London? It would make very little difference to the status of London as a whole and could release valuable funds by relinquishing real estate

I don't really want Westminster Palace sold to Barretts

 

[Ianigsy]

That said, they are woefully inadequate for the current purpose. Turning the place into a museum would probably be a good idea, and a hell of a lot cheaper than updating them to be suited to a 21st century seat of government.

It’d make a cracking Wetherspoons…..

There are a surprising number of countries which don’t have their economic centre, seat of government and cultural centre in the same place. The problem with London as I see it is that it’s permanently at saturation point and needs big, expensive projects like the Elizabeth Line simply in order to function, whereas something half the size in a city like Bristol or Leeds would be transformational.

 

[gswindale]

But it is only valable real estate because London is the capital and the seat of the government. Move the parliament elsewhere, and real estate values in London would fall away drastically since demand for accommodation and offices would plummet.

Is it?

How do real estate values compare in, say New York to Washington DC, or Canberra with Sydney?

As a related point, I see the Natural History Museum is planning on opening a new location in Shinfield to house 1/3 of their assets. It is being planned as a research location only, so no public access. I would have thought that opening a new public location would have been a much better plan to help reach out to the public, but as they can't do anything in London, then screw the public. I don't particularly want to travel to central London to view a few old fossils, but would happily visit them elsewhere where there was better access.

We have a tendency in this country to insist that everything happens in London because it's the capital rather than thinking about what provides the best access for people.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2023 ==

It’d make a cracking Wetherspoons…..

There are a surprising number of countries which don’t have their economic centre, seat of government and cultural centre in the same place. The problem with London as I see it is that it’s permanently at saturation point and needs big, expensive projects like the Elizabeth Line simply in order to function, whereas something half the size in a city like Bristol or Leeds would be transformational.

Yep - New York is the economic powerhouse of the USA, yet the seat of government and the vast majority of their main museums are in DC.

We do have a few big museums outside of London, but we still insist on most new things being in the crapital city.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Where is the money coming from to finance this aspiration of a "modern civic state" which seems to suggest the end of the monarchy? I notice that you still favour an English city, despite the mentions of Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh.

You don't need to end the monarchy. The Netherlands and Sweden both have monarchies which we often look towards as social-democratic countries.

Moving the capital to Belfast, Cardiff or Edinburgh just moves it to another geographical periphery like where London is. Alternatively, You could split the functions of the capital up, like South Africa does, across multiple cities so each nation's capital has a role.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2023 ==

London needs to be turned into a new fifth home nation, also remaining as the UK capital, as Greater London practically has become its own country as it has grown & changed so much so it doesn't really represent the rest of England like New York City doesn't for the rest of the US.

This is another good idea, perhaps better than moving the capital completely.

 

[renegademaster]

Why does the capital need to be politically the exact average of the country? All it needs is good transport links and pretty buildings for visiting dignatiries to look out. Milton Keynes or Crewe might fit the first criteria but certainly not the 2nd. Your also be importing London cost of living to somewhere new

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why does the capital need to be politically the exact average of the country? All it needs is good transport links and pretty buildings for visiting dignatiries to look out. Milton Keynes or Crewe might fit the first criteria but certainly not the 2nd. Your also be importing London cost of living to somewhere new

Look where Moscow is situated in relation to the rest of the country.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2023 ==

You don't need to end the monarchy. The Netherlands and Sweden both have monarchies which we often look towards as social-democratic countries.

Is "a modern civic state" that one contributor gave a description to the some as "a social-democratic country" that you mention above.?

 

[renegademaster]

Look where Moscow is situated in relation to the rest of the country

What's your point? It's pretty much center of European Russia where most people live, most of Russia's train lines point at it and it has good air links.
St Petersburg made more sense in the era of boats , which it was the capital back then

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What's your point? It's pretty much center of European Russia where most people live, most of Russia's train lines point at it and it has good air links.
St Petersburg made more sense in the era of boats , which it was the capital back then

I am sure that Putin would put you right as he will insist that all parts of Russia are one country....

 

[renegademaster]

I am sure that Putin would put you right as he will insist that all parts of Russia are one country....

I wasn't implying Asian Russia was another country but it's pretty empty, so putting their capital in the middle of the densely populated part makes sense

 

[Busaholic]

Why move the capital? If the rest of the country is jealous, why not move that to London, then they can all have their cake.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wasn't implying Asian Russia was another country but it's pretty empty, so putting their capital in the middle of the densely populated part makes sense

That is exactly where London is at present, population-wise.

 

[birchesgreen]

Moving the capital to the middle of Siberia is something Putin is probably mad enough to do nowadays.

Quite a lot of capitals around the world are strangely located though, a few are on the border with another country, which makes defence planning interesting.

 

[al78]

No, it's not. The point I was making is that choosing Birmingham because it's 'central' would be based on a misunderstanding.

It is not central geographically, but given the UK population density decreases (on a spatial average) from south to north, Birmingham is pretty close to central from the perspective of the fraction of the UK population that can get there and back in a day and have time for a meeting.

 

[Meerkat]

It is not central geographically, but given the UK population density decreases (on a spatial average) from south to north, Birmingham is pretty close to central from the perspective of the fraction of the UK population that can get there and back in a day and have time for a meeting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population
According to the above link the centre of population of Great Britain in 2011 was near Swadlincote (near Burton). I assume this means that Englands is probably somewhere to the south east of Birmingham.
Moving the capital however seems to me to be an enormously costly answer to an ill defined alleged problem.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population
According to the above link the centre of population of Great Britain in 2011 was near Swadlincote (near Burton). I assume this means that Englands is probably somewhere to the south east of Birmingham.

Mention of that town brings a smile back to me as many years ago when we went to a school Nativity Play and a bright-eyed young narrator said...."And she wrapped the baby up in Swadlingcote"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2023 ==

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population
Moving the capital however seems to me to be an enormously costly answer to an ill defined alleged problem.

Before everyone begins to seriously address the thread title matter, let us all remember that was just an aspirational vision of one individual website member.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Only if you remove the clock first (in this case, Big Ben)!

Big Ben is the bell inside the clock.

(That is, unless that's another of those "commonly believed myths" -see threads passim).

 

[najaB]

Big Ben is the bell inside the clock.

(That is, unless that's another of those "commonly believed myths" -see threads passim).

No, that's right. The bell that strikes the hour is Big Ben, the clock is The Great Clock which is located at the top of the Elizabeth tower.