The great thing is that he has confirmed there is a significant surplus of money (if frivolous issues like this can occupy the time of government) and I’m looking forward to the announcements of massively reduced waiting lists, improved police resources, reduced drug deaths etc which are due to follow on the back of his latest announcement. There is absolutely no reason not to pass this good news now!
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Scottish Citizen Plan
- Thread starter GusB
- Start date
- Status
The great thing is that he has confirmed there is a significant surplus of money (if frivolous issues like this can occupy the time of government) and I’m looking forward to the announcements of massively reduced waiting lists, improved police resources, reduced drug deaths etc which are due to follow on the back of his latest announcement. There is absolutely no reason not to pass this good news now!
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
The United Kingdom. Or does Northern Ireland not count?
Northern Ireland is part of Britain. Just not the island of Great Britain.
I'd be equally sad to see NI leave the UK as it contributes so much in terms of culture, industry etc (as does Scotland). I probably have more sympathy with Irish nationalists in comparison with the Scottish ones, as they have the quite sensible wish of not having a border across their island.
And on that basis, what is the status of Ireland?
Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, and never has been.
Great Britain came into existence following the Act Of Union in 1707
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland came into existence in 1801 following the merging of the British and Irish parliaments.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland came into existience in 1921 following the establishment of the Irish Free State.
The Irish Republic is the Irish Republic (or Ireland as it is entirely entitled to identify itself).
Northern Ireland is Northern Ireland, part of the UK.
Ireland is a geographical island off the coast of Europe
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I never said that Northern Ireland was part of Great Britain. That would be geographically incorrect.
Great Britain is a geographical island, it did not "come into effect" as a political entity.
Last edited:
So where is the country named "Britain"?
(By the way, "The Irish Republic" ceased to exist in 1922).
"Britain" is synonymous with the United Kingdom.
All citizens of the UK are entitled to call themselves British.
(Apologies to citizens of the Republic of Ireland if my nomenclature is out of date).
So the country is The United Kingdom. Thanks.
It is also "Britain".
You're welcome.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I shall be listening to "I vow to thee my country" on the bus home. This thread has prompted it.
Last edited:
There is no country named Britain. If we're going to discuss national identity, surely it behoves us to get the name of the countries correct.
Britain is Britain.
It might not be 'official' but it has been with us through our darkest hours.
That is enough.
That's not within an independent Scotland's gift. It requires the consent and co-working of both parties.
The previous respondent reads that as the UK being "hostile", but in fact it would simply be a case of controlling its own immigration policy if Scotland's system was incompatible.
Comparisons to Ireland don't fly, because a) Ireland has a sea border with the mainland which negates spillover issues and b) the Irish-UK relationship is special and complicated in a way a UK-Scotland relationship just wouldn't be.
Regards any EU ambitions, also worth noting is the requirement that border disputes don't figure for ascending members to join.
If anything, it would be more complex and even deeper.
While socially the relationship will certainly be deeper, politically it will only be more complex if a piece of current Scottish territory were to decide to remain part of the rUK, for a significant number of residents of that territory to want to rejoin iScotland, and the government of iScotland to claim said territory.
As @Cloud Strife points out the rUK-Scotland border (as a physical entity) is far less complicated to deal with than the NI border. The political ramifications in both the UK and Republic associated with NI are huge, and if NI hadn’t left the Irish Free State and rejoined the UK (ie we would have normal relations with a single independent Ireland) I strongly suspect the CTA would not exist.
Last edited:
You are confusing nation and country. National identity is a subjective thing and does not have to follow precise lines on a map.
.
That wasn’t the original thing under discussion though. Unionists in Ireland consider Northern Ireland British and identify as British but also realise the state is a province of the United Kingdom, and don’t think it is part of “Britain”.
As far as @yorksrob and “Irish Republic” goes, yes, that was a short lived revolutionary state and it is not the name of Ireland today. But the BBC, for some reason, use this name in its style guide, frequently! Including in this eulogy: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66330500.amp
Ireland
Using Ireland is acceptable but it may be helpful to make clear early on we are talking about the country rather than the island. Republic of Ireland or the Irish Republic are also fine.
Threads drift. My point stands.
I'm surprised that they capitalise the 'R' since the Republic of Ireland would, grammatically, be "the Irish republic".
Why do you think that?
Re Ireland, there's been two waves of mass migration from Ireland to England creating deep familial links across a sizeable proportion of the population, and particularly deeply in at least 4 major English cities.
And then there's the sensitivities regarding partition.
For Scotland, the latter wouldnt be an issue and for the former the closest comparator that's on the same scale as Ireland re familial links I can think of is Corby.
I don't see the same depth of social and political connections.
InkyScrolls
On Moderation
Except that they're in the same union... If leaving the EU was a fate worse than death, why would leaving a far closer, older and more societally complex union be easier, or favourable - if it is even possible at all?
I never found an official source but there seems to be an understanding that the RoI won’t do anything crazy with immigration that might threaten the CTA. Therefore I think Scotland assuming they get to stay in the CTA is optimistic considering their plans for mass immigration and quick citizenship, creating a backdoor into living and working in England.
It’s also not a given that they would get an exemption to Schengen for free - particularly if the EU contributors have concerns that Scotland will be a net drain on the EU budget - and it would likely get thrown into the bargaining when a current member demands more fish or whatever.
Another assumption is that the Scots get to keep dual citizenship. Again it would be against the precedence of the RoI* but I wouldn’t be surprised if a referendum campaign raised the possibility of UK passports not being automatically renewed for Scots.
* RoI UK passport situation is a strong precedent but it was a hundred years ago in a different context of world travel and immigration.
It’s also not a given that they would get an exemption to Schengen for free - particularly if the EU contributors have concerns that Scotland will be a net drain on the EU budget - and it would likely get thrown into the bargaining when a current member demands more fish or whatever.
Another assumption is that the Scots get to keep dual citizenship. Again it would be against the precedence of the RoI* but I wouldn’t be surprised if a referendum campaign raised the possibility of UK passports not being automatically renewed for Scots.
* RoI UK passport situation is a strong precedent but it was a hundred years ago in a different context of world travel and immigration.
- Status