Scotland peak fare removal

[BlueLeanie]

Why would you not expect to see a Super Off-Peak Single offered on that itinerary? The restriction code is 9F, which doesn't have any restrictions on arrivals into London on the outward leg. Only London departures are restricted, with Kings Cross departures being valid from 09:06 until 14:59, and then again from 18:59.

ScotRail's changes will no doubt affect other operators in some ways, but they haven't changed the restriction codes associated with other operators' fares.

Well it does feel like a bit of a bargain to get all the way to Edinburgh for that price leaving Haddenham (or Oxford) in the morning peak.

But back to Scotrail.

I see that they are offering a further 10% discount on fares for key public sector staff when going through the relevant staff portal. Will this stack with their 50+ Railcard?

 

[kkong]

The Club 50 discount on Advance fares now seems to be restricted to departures after 09:15 - booking an Advance fare for departure before 09:16 provides no discount.

Previous to the peak fare removal, Advances could be purchased with the discount for any time of day.

The ScotRail website implies that the 09:15 time restriction should (still) only apply to Off-Peak tickets.

Does anyone know if this a cock-up by ScotRail in the fares data, or did they genuinely mean to make the situation worse than before for Club 50 members?

Advance tickets: valid on the train specified on the ticket. ScotRail services only
Off-Peak paper tickets: valid on all operators' services for Club 50 members travelling after 09:15 Monday - Friday or anytime at the weekend.

Discounts are only available on Advance and Off-Peak ticket types, and not all ticket types are available on all routes.
Time restrictions apply to Off-Peak tickets where the Club 50 discount is applied - after 09:15 Monday to Friday or anytime at the weekend.

 

[BlueLeanie]

The Club 50 discount on Advance fares now seems to be restricted to departures after 09:15 - booking an Advance fare for departure before 09:16 provides no discount.

Previous to the peak fare removal, Advances could be purchased with the discount for any time of day.

The ScotRail website implies that the 09:15 time restriction should (still) only apply to Off-Peak tickets.

Does anyone know if this a cock-up by ScotRail in the fares data, or did they genuinely mean to make the situation worse than before for Club 50 members?

There's an announcement on the Club50 Homepage https://www.scotrail.co.uk/tickets/club-50:-

There are no changes to Club 50 terms and conditions following the removal of Peak Fares. Members booking online still enjoy 20% off when travelling after 09:15 Mon–Fri and all weekend. Continue to select “Club 50 Web” under Railcards when choosing an Off-Peak ticket — and remember, time restrictions still apply.

I'm not sure how there can be "no changes" when that's a big change.

 

[davp]

I'm not sure how there can be "no changes" when that's a big change.

It is a material change for advances and statements they have been making about Club 50 terms being unchanged are somewhat disingenuous. There were also off peak flows that were earlier than 0915, for example Edinburgh->Perth.

The statement "Members booking online still enjoy 20% off when travelling after 09:15 Mon–Fri and all weekend." is questionable on some flows. I can't buy a discounted ticket between Arbroath and Montrose because they only sell anytime tickets on that flow (and many others). We have been told "Peak fares gone. For good.". So how does Scotrail explain the ARB-MTS example? Sorry this is because this has always been, and continues to be, a peak fare, so you can't have a discount?

I'm wondering about a complaint especially now that ScotRail is covered by the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman and will need to provide a proper response. There are the statements about Club 50 which may be untrue, and I am unsure about the justification that the time restriction is essential to manage the morning peak - I'm interested to see the evidence from the trial that supports this rationale. However what makes me pause is that even if a complaint were upheld they may just shift their position to one of a commercial decision, and therefore there will be no change for Club 50 members.

 

[Haywain]

So how does Scotrail explain the ARB-MTS example? Sorry this is because this has always been, and continues to be, a peak fare, so you can't have a discount?

This would appear to be covered in the FAQs for Club 50, where it says this (my bold):

You can buy Off-Peak, Off-Peak Day, and Advance tickets with a Club 50 discount between any two stations in Scotland, where these tickets are available. Note that not all tickets are available on all routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably at some point they will be removing all Off Peak tickets, leaving only Anytime and Advance (though in a rather friendlier way than a certain other TOC is doing that), and at that point a new policy would be required? Otherwise nothing has been lost as such compared to the previous situation.

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably at some point they will be removing all Off Peak tickets, leaving only Anytime and Advance (though in a rather friendlier way than a certain other TOC is doing that), and at that point a new policy would be required? Otherwise nothing has been lost as such compared to the previous situation.

The ScotRail page on the peak time restrictions removal/anytime discounted to off-peak states that Off-Peak fares will be removed in due course. Originally I thought they'd even given a date, but the current version of the page just says 'eventually'.

 

[Ziggiesden]

It depends entirely on the specific ticket you hold, and which operator is responsible for setting that fare.

Generally, most fares between two Scottish stations are set by ScotRail. If you hold such a ticket, peak restrictions no longer apply, regardless of which operator you are traveling on.

If you hold a ticket where the fare is set by another operator (most likely tickets to England, Wales, or stations south of Edinburgh/Glasgow mostly served by non-ScotRail operators - but also some "LNER only" tickets north of Edinburgh, and possibly a few others I'm forgetting), peak restrictions still apply, even on ScotRail. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if ScotRail staff didn't bother enforcing them.)

The best way to know for sure is to look at your ticket. If it has time restrictions, the text "See restrictions nre.co.uk/8F", "Restrictions apply. Please visit https://nationalrail.co.uk/3V for more information", or similar will appear somewhere on the ticket. (On digital tickets, you may have to tap a button to find it - for instance, Apple Wallet tickets show this text under the itinerary.)

GroupSave still has a 09:15 Restriction Monday to Friday. Certain other products do too, particularly the Council run Concession Schemes. TransPennine & Cross Country are the other operators that have their own fares. Minimum fares with RailCards also determine the fare. We've had quite a few having to pay more than they expected as they've turned up on a Tuesday at 08:10 expecting to pay the same price for five people to Glasgow as they did on a Saturday. Of course, it was too late for them to take the bus so they were forced to pay the extra £30 quid or so or be late. Misleading? Of course it is.

The advertisement of "From 1 September 2025, you’ll pay the same Anytime train fare no matter the time of day or the day of the week you travel. Because this is your railway." is a lie due to the factors above:

Peak fares gone. For good.

From 1 September 2025, you’ll pay the same train fare no matter the time of day or the day of the week you travel.

www.scotrail.co.uk

From 1 September 2025, you’ll pay the same Anytime train fare no matter the time of day or the day of the week you travel

As another example of the mess that has been made of it, look up the price of an Off Peak Day Return between Muir of Ord and Inverness. Basically, there has never been a CDR for that journey - it always has been a "peak fare" only - no change in price, so that peak fare is still there. As usual, with any systematic change there are winners and losers.

They nearly got it right but fell at the last hurdle.

 

[kkong]

From the latest ScotRail Club 50 flat-fare promo email received today (my bold).

What does Peak Fares Gone mean for Club 50?

Club 50 terms and conditions remain broadly the same following the removal of peak fares. Members enjoy 20% off when travelling after 09:15 Monday to Friday and all day at weekends.

 

[Ziggiesden]

From the latest ScotRail Club 50 flat-fare promo email received today (my bold).

It basically says in the Retail Brief we received last week that travel restrictions are "Monday to Friday, you can travel anytime except on services departing before 09:15.", so anytime at weekends.

However on testing Dundee found it was not available on their 09:15 to Glasgow Queen Street. They seem to have mixed up the conditions of the discount offer of 20% online, 10% at Booking Offices etc. timings.

We are awaiting a change of brief or new timings in the data set to permit travel.

The promotions starts tomorrow "24 September to 3 December 2025 inclusive. (Please do not offer or sell Club 50 tickets to customers before this date, even if ticket type is
visible in retail systems)."

The website, on checking, still shows the old promotion from June, at the moment:

Club 50 £19 Flat Fare

Travel throughout Scotland for just £19 return until 3 December 2025 - exclusive to ScotRail's Club 50 members.

www.scotrail.co.uk

 

[kkong]

It basically says in the Retail Brief we received last week that travel restrictions are "Monday to Friday, you can travel anytime except on services departing before 09:15.", so anytime at weekends.

However on testing Dundee found it was not available on their 09:15 to Glasgow Queen Street. They seem to have mixed up the conditions of the discount offer of 20% online, 10% at Booking Offices etc. timings.

We are awaiting a change of brief or new timings in the data set to permit travel.

The promotions starts tomorrow "24 September to 3 December 2025 inclusive. (Please do not offer or sell Club 50 tickets to customers before this date, even if ticket type is
visible in retail systems)."

The website, on checking, still shows the old promotion from June, at the moment:

Club 50 £19 Flat Fare

Travel throughout Scotland for just £19 return until 3 December 2025 - exclusive to ScotRail's Club 50 members.

www.scotrail.co.uk

The actual restriction seems to be departure after 09:15, i.e. from 09:16.

Once logged in to your account (as is required to purchase flat-fare tickets), you see the correct dates for the latest promo.

https://my.scotrail.co.uk/Club-50-flat-fare-terms-and-conditions

£19 Flat Fare terms and conditions

Club 50 £19 Flat Fare Return Terms & Conditions

• The £19 Club 50 Flat Fare Return ticket offer is open to new and existing Club 50 members with an active membership
• Available for open return travel between any two Scottish stations on ScotRail services (and First TransPennine Express services to/from Lockerbie) only. (where usual ticket price is higher than £19)
• Travel after 09:15 Monday to Friday and all weekend
• Valid on ScotRail services (and First TransPennine Express services to/from Lockerbie) from 24 September 2025 until 03 December 2025
• Also valid on First TransPennine Express services to/from Reston
• Return tickets are valid for up to one month and all travel must be completed by 02 January 2026
• This offer is non-refundable, and you can’t make changes to your travel plans
• There are no First Class upgrades available and the offer can’t be used in conjunction with any other rail promotional offers or Railcards
• You can only break your journey to change trains
• You can buy as many Flat Fare tickets as you like during the promotional period, but all passengers must be Club 50 members
• If you are buying Flat Fare tickets online, you can only purchase two per transaction
• You must present your Club 50 Smartcard with your £19 promotional ticket to validate travel
• Your Club 50 membership must be active for both the outbound and return legs of your journey
• You may be asked to show proof of age

 

[Ziggiesden]

The actual restriction seems to be departure after 09:15, i.e. from 09:16.

Once logged in to your account (as is required to purchase flat-fare tickets), you see the correct dates for the latest promo.

https://my.scotrail.co.uk/Club-50-flat-fare-terms-and-conditions

Yup, exactly. They have issued the staff with a set of instructions which differs from the actual validity that Retail Systems have.

They manage to do this time and time again. We keep telling them to consult and check.

They don't.

 

[styles]

So the Anytime fares have been repriced, with the Off Peak fares retained at the same price.

This presents an oddity when buying tickets online as most (all?) booking engines default to the Anytime fare, but also under other ticket options show the Off Peak fare for the same price.

Strictly speaking, if a customer bought an Off Peak fare but travelled at peak time, they wouldn't hold the right ticket and would be liable to some form of penalty. This isn't really an issue for ScotRail because the guards will presumably just stop taking any notice of Anytime or Off Peak on a ticket. A curious position nonetheless.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So the Anytime fares have been repriced, with the Off Peak fares retained at the same price.

This presents an oddity when buying tickets online as most (all?) booking engines default to the Anytime fare, but also under other ticket options show the Off Peak fare for the same price.

Strictly speaking, if a customer bought an Off Peak fare but travelled at peak time, they wouldn't hold the right ticket and would be liable to some form of penalty. This isn't really an issue for ScotRail because the guards will presumably just stop taking any notice of Anytime or Off Peak on a ticket. A curious position nonetheless.

I suspect this is an interim step, and eventually there will just be Anytimes and Advances. But they need to make sure that everything that would be adversely affected by that (e.g. the over 50s thing) is set up correctly first before they can be removed.

 

[Gaelan]

Strictly speaking, if a customer bought an Off Peak fare but travelled at peak time, they wouldn't hold the right ticket and would be liable to some form of penalty.

The Off Peak fares have had their restriction codes removed, so they are valid at any time as well.

This is useful sometimes: certain flows have Off-Peak fares with no direct Anytime equivalent, such as the Leuchars-Edinburgh Off-Peak Day Return. These fares are retained and valid at any time.

 

[styles]

I suspect this is an interim step, and eventually there will just be Anytimes and Advances. But they need to make sure that everything that would be adversely affected by that (e.g. the over 50s thing) is set up correctly first before they can be removed.

Yes the Club 50 situation needs resolving as a priority really. The fact that Off Peak tickets can still be bought is a bit minor in the grand scheme of things, especially if they open ticket barriers at previously peak times.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2025 ==

The Off Peak fares have had their restriction codes removed, so they are valid at any time as well.

This is useful sometimes: certain flows have Off-Peak fares with no direct Anytime equivalent, such as the Leuchars-Edinburgh Off-Peak Day Return. These fares are retained and valid at any time.

Ah I hadn't noticed the restriction codes had been removed, thanks!

 

[Kirkcudbright]

I have been a Club 50 member for 9 years, and have always used it on the 08.48 train from Dumfries to Glasgow Central, arriving at 10.37 and the 08.35 train from Lockerbie to Edinburgh Waverley, arriving at 09.40.

Neither of these trains could be described as ‘peak’ time arrivals, and as I understood it, an arrival in Edinburgh or Glasgow after 09.30 qualified.

Now in the South of Scotland, as peak fares are abolished on Scotrail, we cannot depart until 10.40 from Dumfries to Glasgow or 10.35 from Lockerbie to Edinburgh when using Club 50.

In addition, there are still peak fares on Transpennine from Lockerbie, so we do not benefit from that. As a long time supporter of rail, one can’t help feeling a bit cheesed off and also that once again a central belt mentality is at play in Scotrail decisions.

 

[kkong]

There is now a message on the ScotRail website which says a "system change" is in the works to address the lack of Club 50 discount on flows which currently only have Anytime fares set.

Continue to select “Club 50 Web” under ‘Railcards’ when booking online and, for now, please make sure to select journeys labelled Off-Peak to use your discount. There are a small number of journeys labelled Anytime where your discount won’t currently apply, but we’re working on a system change to address this and will update you soon.