Scared of prosecution

[sickwithstress]

I was stopped this morning by 2 men inside a London train station. one showed me a badge but to be honest, I can't even remember what the badge looked like. they asked me if I could show them my train ticket which I did. They then asked me where I had boarded the train. I stupidly lied to them and told them that I had gotten on at a station within zone 3 (which is what my ticket is valid for). They told me that I had actually boarded the train at a much earlier station (Higham) and proceeded to caution me.

They spent the next hour asking me to confirm that I had made a return journey from Higham to London for the past 7 days. They cautioned me at the start of questioning me about each new day. I admitted to travelling from Higham to London but that I did not travel back to Higham every day, because I don't. They asked me questions about when I had to pay a penalty fare 2 months ago - I was honest and said that I genuinely did not recall. At the end of the questioning, they asked me to sign, date and time the notebook that they were taking all the notes on. Basically, they wrote down the questions they asked me and my replies.

The two men were polite and pleasant but I was so panicky and stressed that I ended up in tears on a couple of occasions. I've been told that I will be contacted either by phone or letter and that I should not ignore the communication. I've asked if I was going to have to go to court and get a criminal record but they couldn't tell me.

They did advise that even though I don't always use the return leg of my ticket, I should buy a ticket to cover the whole journey to save myself from being caught again.

They also told me that they were supposed to ask me questions about my train travel all the way back to March 2013 which was when I apparently started to buy my ticket but they weren't going to as I was already an hour late to work. They even apologised for making the start of my work day so horrible so I can't say they weren't being pleasant but I'm stressing out as to what is likely to happen to me.

I'm aware that I what I did was wrong and very stupid but I'm terrified at the thought of having to go to court and be prosecuted with potentially a criminal record. I haven't had permanent work for 2.5 years now and do contract work to pay the bills. If I get a criminal record, that's my hopes of my current contract role becoming permanent down the toilet. My partner has recently lost his job and our finances are in such a state as a result of the lack of work by both of us that I'm actually in debt management.

I know I'm can't do anything (or maybe I can?) until I receive a letter or phone call but any and all advice is appreciated. I'm so stressed out at the moment that I'm seriously contemplating going back to my counsellor as I can feel my mental health going downhill again

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The Courts are often cautious before agreeing to award penalties and costs against persons who are already in debt management regimes. Your solicitor should be able to make an appropriate representation which will assist you if the matter does reach the Courts.

We cannot begin to guess whether or not your incidernt will be taken forward for prosecution, but I can tell you that there is enough in your report to suggest that the Company has been monitoring your activity and already had good reason to guess that it was fraudulent. Whatever you said during the interview has probably confirmed enough of that guess to confirm their suspicion, perhaps it is that you have repeatedly and systematically attempted to defraud the Company over a sustained period of time?

I expect you will hear back from them in a month or two, so you should make a note now of what you recall having said to the officers, and when you do receive further correspondence, then take that letter and your notes to a local law firm which deals with criminal defence work for clients who have little or no means.

 

[sickwithstress]

Thanks for the reply. Is it worth my talking to a solicitor now or should I wait til I get the letter?

 

[Yew]

Thanks for the reply. Is it worth my talking to a solicitor now or should I wait til I get the letter?

Wait until the letter comes. The best thing to do now is write notes of the interaction as best you remember it

 

[jon0844]

They also told me that they were supposed to ask me questions about my train travel all the way back to March 2013 which was when I apparently started to buy my ticket but they weren't going to as I was already an hour late to work.(

You were lucky. When I was interviewed under caution, the RPI went by the book and filled out goodness knows how many pages going back to the start of the year when my season ticket started.

I can't remember the exact sequence, but it was something like every day for the last two/three weeks, then a question about a number of days for a few more weeks, then for every month (or something similar). All the same questions asked every time, and in my case, the same answer every single time.

Total process was some 4 hours or more. That bit I remember only too well!

 

[sickwithstress]

You were lucky. When I was interviewed under caution, the RPI went by the book and filled out goodness knows how many pages going back to the start of the year when my season ticket started.

I can't remember the exact sequence, but it was something like every day for the last two/three weeks, then a question about a number of days for a few more weeks, then for every month (or something similar). All the same questions asked every time, and in my case, the same answer every single time.

Total process was some 4 hours or more. That bit I remember only too well!

Jon, do you mind my asking what happened in your case? I can barely function in work due to the fact that I'm so stressed

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Thanks for the reply. Is it worth my talking to a solicitor now or should I wait til I get the letter?

I answered that in the last sentence of my post : " . . . and when you do receive further correspondence, then take that letter and your notes to a local law firm which deals with criminal defence work for clients who have little or no means. "

You continually refer to being "stressed". I had better repeat, that it is likely to be some weeks or months before you are contacted again. So you do need to stop doing whatever it is that makes you feel "stressed". It prevents you functioning properly and is likely to be bad for your health, so I would advise you to focus on the world around you and not on your thoughts.

Jon, do you mind my asking what happened in your case? I can barely function in work due to the fact that I'm so stressed

Asking other people about their particular incident is unlikely to assist you to deal with yours, particularly as there is only one thing that you can do about it at the present, and which I have also put in my inital reply : " . . . so you should make a note now of what you recall having said to the officers".
Have you done that yet?

When you have, then forget about it all and get on with what really matters in your life.
Please.

 

[jon0844]

Jon, do you mind my asking what happened in your case? I can barely function in work due to the fact that I'm so stressed

In my case, it was quickly appealed by myself that very afternoon and sorted because the RPI had made a huge mistake. A mistake that was pointed out from the outset, but he decided to proceed with regardless. Ironically, his colleagues at the time all backed him but then deserted him soon after.

Sadly, I don't think that there has been any mistake made here as you lied and were quite possibly monitored over a period of time for previous offences.

As such, I'd imagine they'll go for a prosecution that will come with the risk of a criminal record. However, an out of court settlement is very likely to be offered these days, even for multiple offences, if the recent Southeastern story is taken as an example. Here it was a settlement of £43,000. In your case, I'd imagine that being somewhat less. If they haven't got sufficient evidence for previous offences, it might just be a charge for this single offence.

However, you'd have to give more information to the people on here that will give more detailed advice.. no doubt starting with who it was that stopped you (which company/operator) and other details.

I guess only you know how many times you might have done this before, and thus what evidence they may or may not have. Was this the first time or not?

 

[47421]

You may not want to give any more specific details on a public forum about what you may or may not have been doing over the last year. You should assume that the revenue protection and prosecutions department of the train co concerned are reading this forum

 

[455driver]

As they appeared to know where you had boarded the train without you telling them (is that correct?) it would sound as if they have been watching you for some time to build up a file of evidence.

 

[island]

Do what DaveNewcastle suggests. He knows his stuff.

And then start buying tickets for the full journey you are making. Intentionally buying a ticket for a shorter distance than you travel is a criminal offence and it is taken very seriously.

 

[Haywain]

Do what DaveNewcastle suggests. He knows his stuff.

And then start buying tickets for the full journey you are making. Intentionally buying a ticket for a shorter distance than you travel is a criminal offence and it is taken very seriously.

As island says, do what DaveNewcastle suggests, and ignore pretty much everything else anyone posts on here (there will be plenty of it). Other than that, you can only wait.

 

[bb21]

As island says, do what DaveNewcastle suggests, and ignore pretty much everything else anyone posts on here (there will be plenty of it). Other than that, you can only wait.

I wouldn't say ignore what other people say. I don't think anyone has said anything contrary to what DaveNewcastle said.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

As others have said, it is very likely that the TOC has been watching and monitoring you and it would not pay for you to lie - especially if there are events you are unlikely to remember. You will just dig yourself into a deeper hole and you may probably be labelled a common criminal and made an example of.

As DaveNewcastle says, there is no point stressing about this. Do accept that you might have to go to court. This "may" lead to two options:

1) You may be given the opportunity to pay an out of court settlement before the hearing
2) You may be prosecuted, be given a criminal record and lose your job

I think you ought to start saving up now and plead to the court your financial situation - they "may" be lenient and sort out a debt management plan so that you can pay the fine and costs in instalments

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm not sure that this reply is giving sickwithstress a realistic perspective:

. . . . However, an out of court settlement is very likely to be offered these days, even for multiple offences, if the recent Southeastern story is taken as an example. Here it was a settlement of £43,000. In your case, I'd imagine that being somewhat less. If they haven't got sufficient evidence for previous offences, it might just be a charge for this single offence.

In all the cases where a Company has investigated serial fraud where I've been involved, then the amount talked about as a settlement has been proportionate to the actual loss of revenue from the unpaid fares.

This forum seems to have become distracted by the press coverage of one long-standing fare evader whose recent settlement was nearly £43,000 but failed to recognise the key point about that story and which might assist sickwithstress; that is that the investigators are in an excellent position to accurately calculate the sum that has been lost due to the fraud. So rather than quote the amount in one headline-grabbing incident, it would be more useful to quote the general principle, which is that a Company will seek to recover the actual amount due from the unpaid fares (plus costs).

Only sickwithstress knows how much has been lost - perhaps its just a few pounds a week for a few months. Perhaps not. But let's not confuse a worried person with circumstances which are not relevant to their own request for help.

 

[jon0844]

That case was just a rather extreme example of TOCs seeking to settle out of court. It's in their interest after all, and is now a very common outcome.

 

[34D]

As others have said, it is very likely that the TOC has been watching and monitoring you and it would not pay for you to lie - especially if there are events you are unlikely to remember. You will just dig yourself into a deeper hole and you may probably be labelled a common criminal and made an example of.

As DaveNewcastle says, there is no point stressing about this. Do accept that you might have to go to court. This "may" lead to two options:

1) You may be given the opportunity to pay an out of court settlement before the hearing
2) You may be prosecuted, be given a criminal record and lose your job

I think you ought to start saving up now and plead to the court your financial situation - they "may" be lenient and sort out a debt management plan so that you can pay the fine and costs in instalments

Or

3) - the magistrates consider all the evidence and mitigation and decide on some other outcome.

Whilst this may be unlikely, it remains an option open to them.