Hey all! I was checking the routeing guide and could not find an easement for travelling on the Settle Carlisle Line during Jan 2026 engineering. More specifically, an open return from Edinburgh to Preston still isn't valid via Hellifield. Also, what about Northern services? If I want to stop at Ribblehead on the way down, do I just have to split my tickets?
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S&C Diversion Easements
- Thread starter Dirty_Mac
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For many of the journeys that you could make on the diverted Avanti services, the Routeing Guide maps already permit travel via the S&C.
The issue is that many walk-up fares have had silly "via X" restrictions added in recent years, e.g. Warrington to Carlisle fares are now routed "via Lancaster".
These via points have ostensibly been introduced to "simplify" the "complexity" of having fares routed Any Permitted. In reality they have done the precise opposite, since people now need to work out what intermediate stations their train passes through.
And in situations like this, it can cause problems by ruling out perfectly reasonable alternative routes - as demonstrated by the fact that it's a mapped route in the Routeing Guide!
Most advance fares are operator restricted (e.g. Avanti only) rather than geographically restricted so they're not affected by the same issues, but that obviously doesn't give you the ability to break your journey and you're tied to your booked train, so that probably wouldn't be suitable for what you mention.
In due course I'd expect an easement to be added to allow "via Lancaster" or "via Penrith" tickets to be used via Settle during the closures, but it's really poor that the most TOCs don't coordinate this in sufficient time to ensure diverted trains show up as valid from the moment they're published.
The issue is that many walk-up fares have had silly "via X" restrictions added in recent years, e.g. Warrington to Carlisle fares are now routed "via Lancaster".
These via points have ostensibly been introduced to "simplify" the "complexity" of having fares routed Any Permitted. In reality they have done the precise opposite, since people now need to work out what intermediate stations their train passes through.
And in situations like this, it can cause problems by ruling out perfectly reasonable alternative routes - as demonstrated by the fact that it's a mapped route in the Routeing Guide!
Most advance fares are operator restricted (e.g. Avanti only) rather than geographically restricted so they're not affected by the same issues, but that obviously doesn't give you the ability to break your journey and you're tied to your booked train, so that probably wouldn't be suitable for what you mention.
In due course I'd expect an easement to be added to allow "via Lancaster" or "via Penrith" tickets to be used via Settle during the closures, but it's really poor that the most TOCs don't coordinate this in sufficient time to ensure diverted trains show up as valid from the moment they're published.
ChrisC
Established Member
This “via Lancaster“ restriction isn’t just an issue with journeys from stations in the North West such as Warrington. As reported in another thread, a few weeks ago I travelled to Glasgow from Alfreton in Derbyshire and could not get an any permitted walk-up fare to Glasgow. The only fare available from Alfreton is the “via Lancaster” fare, which does not allow travel via the S&C or via Edinburgh, which are both allowed on the any permitted ticket available from other stations including nearby Chesterfield.
I thought this was a ridiculous situation where in this case the route changing at Leeds and Carlisle, albeit slower, is the most direct route. I ended up splitting tickets at Hellifield, and although this saved me around £40, did not allow the flexibility of returning by a different route. Incidentally in the case of Alfreton to Glasgow, the “via Lancaster” fare does allow travel via Leeds and Lancaster.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This (on tickets from Manchester at least) was an issue for the S&C diversions that occurred in 1998/1999 - nothing new in the world! The problem of course now is that it will be near impossible to buy these tickets at all bar at booking offices unless they fix it, whereas back then almost nothing was sold on an itinerary.
It was also traditionally an issue when the first northbound past Oxenholme was about 4pm on a Sunday, when the DalesRail service from Preston was the only way to get to Carlisle by a vaguely reasonable time.
Technically not on an Edinburgh to Preston ticket since going via the S&C isn't a "mapped route" in the Routeing Guide.
It is a mapped route for Edinburgh to Wigan, for example - but there isn't an Off-Peak Day Return on that journey, whereas there is one to Preston, and it's fairly good value.
In practice I would not expect staff to challenge travel via the S&C during the engineering works, and there's every likelihood an easement will be added in due course. But right now it would not technically be valid.
That's so dumb. Why is via Hellifield a mapped route for both Lancaster and Wigan but not Preston
The mapped routes are rarely logical. Going via Newcastle is fine for Preston to Edinburgh (if you get an "Any Permitted" fare) as is taking the Cumbrian Coast line. But not the S&C ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lancaster to Hellifield is a long-standing service.
Wigan to Carlisle via Hellifield isn't, but I imagine it was allowed in the days of S&C diversions (which go back to the 70s at least, and they didn't serve Preston) and hasn't been or can't be amended.
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