LNER is the other.
Edit: Being pedantic, I think Network Rail got the RST Online Leisure Card rather than the Rail Staff Leisure Card (though the differences are slim.)
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RMT industrial action 5th - 12 September 2025
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Edit: Being pedantic, I think Network Rail got the RST Online Leisure Card rather than the Rail Staff Leisure Card (though the differences are slim.)
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The RST Online Leisure Card is significantly more restrictive than the normal one:
- Tickets MUST be purchased on the RST Online website.
- An RST Online Leisure Card is not valid on Caledonian Sleeper, Elizabeth Line (except as part of a cross-London transfer), Grand Central, Hull Trains or London Overground services.
- They're not valid for free travel on London Trams (Rail Staff Leisure Cards and Staff Travel Cards are.)
- They're not valid to obtain reduced fares on Eurostar, nor do holders qualify for a FIP (primarily European rail) discount card or free travel coupons.
Regarding Priv, for clarity, what agreements are currently in place for staff that joined after 96, anything?
What are LU staff commuting from places such as Milton Keynes using, is there any current staff travel agreement in place or are they buying publicly available tickets?
What are LU staff commuting from places such as Milton Keynes using, is there any current staff travel agreement in place or are they buying publicly available tickets?
Dstock7080
Established Member
RMT industrial action 5th - 12 September 2025
So will Stratford station be open then? Yes. 1756979795 The Greenford branch should be unaffected, except for very early and late on Monday and Wednesday, as the station is above ground and does not require staff to be present, aside for opening or closing. There would however likely be no...
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All LU Staff have discounted EuroStar (blue) travel but this is with Staff Oyster card.
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The residential season ticket which is also issued by rail staff travel and is subject to the same 75% discount from headline value, which is where the confusion arises. As you say it’s possible for staff to be eligible for the leisure Priv but not for the residential season ticket. You’re in big trouble if you get caught using leisure priv tickets for commuting.
I think it has been confirmed above that it’s a leisure priv in dispute, along the lines of that offered to TOC staff. Hard to see much of a justification for not offering it tbh as the cost will be insignificant - especially as it has seemingly already been promised.
answered earlier.RMT industrial action 5th - 12 September 2025
So will Stratford station be open then? Yes. 1756979795 The Greenford branch should be unaffected, except for very early and late on Monday and Wednesday, as the station is above ground and does not require staff to be present, aside for opening or closing. There would however likely be no...
After 1996 only 75% discount loan on season tickets.
All LU Staff have discounted EuroStar (blue) travel but this is with Staff Oyster card.
That explains why Eurostar staff get PTAC oysters.
weeklycommuter
Member
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The industrial action this week is now over. There was no intervention to stop it.
The important thing to remember is that the strikes are over for now; there is finally an offer of talks on Wednesday. I've told my Rep I want levels heads, genuine discussions, and a hope to meet in the middle with a deal that all sides are happy with.
Probably not. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if RDG/GBR/whoever represents operators these days ask for something in return from TfL.
You can put your priv on an Oyster card but a) it’s very tricky to actually find the right time and place to do so and b) isn’t valid everywhere.
whoosh
Established Member
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I know it's a slight deviation from the crux of the thread, but just to point out that post-96 employees had to fight for this and it didn't come in until 10-15 years later (or was it even later than that?!). Much like the Network Rail priv arrangements only came about a few years ago.
Priv rate season tickets for post 96 TOC employees didn't come about until October 2000.
It's all a bit silly if TfL are concerned about the cost of reciprocal arrangements - buy a priv ticket for a cross London journey from a National Rail ticket office or the Rail Staff Travel website, and you get priv rate that you can use on the Tube (because you HAVE to use the tube for part of the journey).
Finsbury Park to Vauxhall for example. The whole ticket is discounted to priv rate - so there is ALREADY an arrangement with any ticket that includes a cross-London journey.
Before 96, British Rail staff had priv rate tube, and LU staff had priv rate BR. Simple. At my TOC I have priv rate on the tube, but we used to have one for a partner as well, which was a facility that was withdrawn. They all need to stop messing about - they've had since 1996!
It was implied that mainline staff would expect free travel on TfL. Mainline staff who are eligible for London Underground travel get priv travel, not free travel.
bramling
Veteran Member
I wouldn’t expect free travel for mainline staff. Any reciprocal arrangement would likely be 75% off leisure travel only.
And talks have been scheduled for next week. We have no idea to what extent Khan is exerting pressure in the background.
That sounds like a very sensible position.
Very much depends where you live and your “use case”. I don’t work for TfL, but I do live in London, and my PTAC oyster is likely to save me more than the leisure priv, given how much I use the tube and TfL services. That’s despite also doing a fair bit of national rail travel. Equally many TfL staff will not use national rail for much leisure travel.
So I’ve been told. When I get my priv back I’ll be looking to do that - but then I’ll have three oyster cards: the priv one, the PTAC one, and the work one that can only be used for one specific journey. Quite what will happen when oyster is phased out is anyone’s guess!
bramling
Veteran Member
You could argue the same for preserved railways. How many mainline staff visit preserved railways at all, let alone regularly? Yet potentially staff from preserved railways can potentially make quite a saving if they use rail regularly. In practice it isn’t really about the values, these sorts of benefits are offered as a fringe benefit, just like many companies offer things to attract and retain staff.
There will probably be some sort of staff only card - maybe like how RST cards work - and presumably you’d have to apply to TfL (either virtually or digitally) to prove it. Off-topic but I don’t think this is the only way the eventual removal of Oyster will be a headache for TfL.
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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I saw an excerpt from an interview with Dempsey on BBC local news yesterday. He came across pretty well and spoke very much of compromise and meeting management in the middle. Very much a case of wanting TfL commit to moving towards 32 hours over a period of time rather than "we demand it now, immediately", as may have been portrayed previously.
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That old chestnut. Oyster is not being phased out. End of! There are too many people who rely on it. The technology behind it may change, but it's not going anywhere.
I’m not suggesting it’s happening now, but it is surely certain to be phased out eventually, with the uptake of contactless. So long as there’s a way to add my discounts, it doesn’t concern me unduly!
Right I think we are best locking this thread for the moment and see what the outcome of the talks are.
A deal has now been agreed:
leonie13
Member
So... it was always about the money and never about a shorter working week or staff PRIV travel?!
MaidaVale
Member
The Staff PRIV travel itself was never really part of the dispute for this pay deal, It was part of an earlier pay deal (2023). However the disputes surrounding that issue during 2025 were in relation to it actually being implemented, as it's currently still outstanding. LU have confirmed they will continue talks with the RDG as part of the negotiations for this year's pay deal, which to be fair, is basically as much as they can really promise considering it's ultimately the RDGs decision rather than LUs.
Only relevant to certain roles and departments, hence not really being part of the wider offer. I'm sure this will come up again in the near future during future disputes.
Respectfully, I don't think you have a full understanding of the nuances of the dispute.
With regards to money, I'm sure you'll have remembered that 3.4% was offered before staff went on strike. 3.4% is the accepted deal (now a 3 year deal). The 2nd year will be RPI, the 3rd year will be RPI + 0.2%. Someone better at maths than me will be able to work out what that 0.2% increase will mean for me. I would guess £75 a year? So, having lost 2 days money on strike action, no it wasn't 'always about the money'. I personally thought we should maintain the strike action, but in an all grades Union I have to go with the majority.
The shorter working week is another misunderstood aspect of the dispute. The company are attempting to force a strange 4 day working week on me that will greatly increase my already rather intense workload. This will result in me driving Underground trains for up to 9.5 hours a day. They assure me that I'll be fine, and although knocking 60 years old, the fatigue levels won't impact my driving ability. I don't want a shorter working week, I'm quite happy with what I've got now.
The Priv is a massive bone of contention. Namely because we called off previous strike action based on (amongst other things) the reassurance that Priv was coming. Then it wasn't. Then it didn't come the next year either. So workers are left in a situation where their employer had not fulfilled their side of the deal. This leads to mistrust between worker and employer - something which is never good. It's hard to express the level of discontent across all grades with LU at the moment, and this has much wider repercussions than can be explained here.
So I would suggest it's too simplistic to say 'it was always about the money'. Of course workers have to maintain their purchasing power, and in an ideal world, workers should seek to improve their purchasing power, but this dispute was always wider than money.
The good news is all unions have agreed to it, so no more strike about pay for the next 2 and bit years.
The good news is all unions have agreed to it, so no more strike about pay for the next 2 and bit years.
I'm sure something else will come along, we can't be going over 2 years without a strike, it just wouldn't feel right!
bramling
Veteran Member
Completely agree about the whole 4-day week thing. It’s an odd situation because seemingly (elements of) ASLEF claim to want it, then TFL claim they are agnostic to it yet essentially seem to completely fall behind it, probably because if offers the opportunity to make changes to things which will bail out some of the issues which have arisen from poor management over the last few years.
I cannot understand why any LU driver would want to work the 4-day week as planned. 8 and a half hours is a long enough duty with the intensity of LU work, and any LU driver will say that a full-length duty is hard, all the more so on the more intense lines.
Again, comes down to poor TFL management.
leonie13
Member
Respectfully, I don't think you have a full understanding of the nuances of the dispute.
With regards to money, I'm sure you'll have remembered that 3.4% was offered before staff went on strike. 3.4% is the accepted deal (now a 3 year deal). The 2nd year will be RPI, the 3rd year will be RPI + 0.2%. Someone better at maths than me will be able to work out what that 0.2% increase will mean for me. I would guess £75 a year? So, having lost 2 days money on strike action, no it wasn't 'always about the money'. I personally thought we should maintain the strike action, but in an all grades Union I have to go with the majority.
The shorter working week is another misunderstood aspect of the dispute. The company are attempting to force a strange 4 day working week on me that will greatly increase my already rather intense workload. This will result in me driving Underground trains for up to 9.5 hours a day. They assure me that I'll be fine, and although knocking 60 years old, the fatigue levels won't impact my driving ability. I don't want a shorter working week, I'm quite happy with what I've got now.
The Priv is a massive bone of contention. Namely because we called off previous strike action based on (amongst other things) the reassurance that Priv was coming. Then it wasn't. Then it didn't come the next year either. So workers are left in a situation where their employer had not fulfilled their side of the deal. This leads to mistrust between worker and employer - something which is never good. It's hard to express the level of discontent across all grades with LU at the moment, and this has much wider repercussions than can be explained here.
So I would suggest it's too simplistic to say 'it was always about the money'. Of course workers have to maintain their purchasing power, and in an ideal world, workers should seek to improve their purchasing power, but this dispute was always wider than money.
The good news is all unions have agreed to it, so no more strike about pay for the next 2 and bit years.
I do appreciate your respectful response, @Mawkie However, I do have an understanding of certain nuances (maybe not all). I'm just utterly dumbfounded as to why we have lost two days pay to make an agreement that had no coherency or alignment with the original reasons for the walkout.
I respectfully disagree that the company were trying to "force" anything... there certainly were small fractions of grades and/or unions that did want a 4-day working week (as @bramling suggests) and that's why the trial for T/Ops was held on certain line(s), I think? Yeah, the company would love to introduce it, but they knew it was never going to happen and I'm not sure the trial had any consideration for the ramifications to any other grades either. It seemed a strange topic for the union to fight against when only a tiny small number of it's membership wanted it.
I also have an appreciation that the company agreed to PRIV, yet faced obstacles from the RDG. Quite why the company made any union agreement that required external stakeholder co-operation (seemingly not forthcoming) is bewildering, but surely the union would have known that. It seems like a silly 'gotcha' issue that nobody is really that fussed about.
You say "this dispute was always wider than money" - it's hard to see that when it appears (certainly to those outside our organisation) that we've been bought off with a three year pay-deal with no solution to the other issues we went on strike for. Deep down, this appears to simply be a bit of muscle-flexing between a new RMT General Secretary and the company.
bramling
Veteran Member
I think the whole PRIV thing was a case of TFL saying “we have no more money”, so the union has looked to find something which essentially doesn’t cost anything as a way of providing something beneficial in lieu of a pay rise. Then when that hasn’t come to fruition it’s a case of saying well hang on you’re now offering staff nothing, which isn’t a great position at a time of very high inflation.
I agree PRIV isn’t a massive issue in itself. Some staff (pre 96) have it anyway, and a lot of staff likely don’t use mainline rail services much or even at all. But it was a way of providing something of tangible value. PRIV may not be that much of a thing, but offering nothing is.
TFL can’t expect to continue claiming “there’s no money” forever, especially as a company that requires a certain level of competence for their roles. Aggressive shift patterns, dealing with an increasingly problematic London public, and not exactly the most well-appointed working conditions (*) is not the most attractive package. Yes it’s true TFL still get a lot of applicants for roles, but they aren’t getting the same level of of quality applicants they got in say the 2000s. There’s also issues with retention these days, which didn’t really used to be the case - people are finding that the package TFL offers is no longer overly competitive relative to other forms of employment.
(* how many workplaces do you expect to find buckets on the floor to catch water from leaking ceilings, rodent infestations, or constant levels of overtime because of the chronically high level of unfilled vacancies?)
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