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Railcard renewal - demanding mobile number

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bubieyehyeh

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I just had a thought... why not put a company's own number in the box, so they end up ringing / spamming themselves...?
I did that once for a click and collect order where they wanted a mobile number.
When I went to collect they said their stock count was wrong, and they had tried to ring me to tell me they had no stock, but it was always engaged. Apparently they didn't have the brains to to check the number or send me a email.
 
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kieron

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UK mobile numbers in the 077009nnnnn series are reserved for TV / film use etc and do not actually exist in reality. So a mobile number in this range can be used without fear of it being a stranger's mobile number if a site demands a mobile number but there is no legitimate reason for them to call you by phone.
If they demand a real mobile number, but you don't expect to ever need it again, you could use one from somewhere like receive-smss.com.

They make money from people who need to receive a message to a number they used a while beforehand, so you should be confident either that you can create a new account next time you want to access the system, or that you can access your account later on without using that phone number.
How does that service 'make' (or rather, not lose) money? They don't charge for the service, but they must have costs associated with running an automated voice response system?

Or is it just subsidised by some other operations?
The company sells call blocking devices, so this may be paid for from their marketing budget. You don't need to know who the company are to use this service, of course.

One thing you may wish to avoid is using a number like this for a public record (as here).
 

BlueLeanie

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You do realise that not everyone actually has a mobile phone?
Brother in law doesn't, relies on his wife. My wife only has a basic phone, not a smart one. Why do Railcard need a mobile number if I've ordered a physical card - which, incidentally, is on it's way (not 10 days at all!) - got the email today, so if they've no use for it ,why ask for it? What do they intend to do with it?

Companies are under no obligation to design their services around your lifestyle choices.
 
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OscarH

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Companies are under no obligation to design their services around your lifestyle choices
No, but we should absolutely publicly shame and avoid retailers who want to collect unnecessary data for scummy marketing or other tracking reasons.

There is no reason for any item being ordered and sent by eg Royal Mail to ever require a phone number, they only need an email where you have infinite email addresses so can make sure you're insulated from when the retailer inevitably suffers a data breach
 

BlueLeanie

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No, but we should absolutely publicly shame and avoid retailers who want to collect unnecessary data for scummy marketing or other tracking reasons.

There is no reason for any item being ordered and sent by eg Royal Mail to ever require a phone number, they only need an email where you have infinite email addresses so can make sure you're insulated from when the retailer inevitably suffers a data breach

Oh there is, I get a message from Royal Mail when they have a package for delivery for me.

Contact lenses yesterday, package from a clothing retailer today. All useful stuff.
 

OscarH

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Oh there is, I get a message from Royal Mail when they have a package for delivery for me.

Contact lenses yesterday, package from a clothing retailer today. All useful stuff.
Useful stuff that they happily send by email to me! I have no issue with it as an option for people who prefer the sms channel, but the field being required will instantly put me off a retailer, they don't need it
 

35B

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Useful stuff that they happily send by email to me! I have no issue with it as an option for people who prefer the sms channel, but the field being required will instantly put me off a retailer, they don't need it
No, they don't need it, but they choose to offer a service that is the best fit for what their customers ask for and doesn't require them to run multiple contact channels. And anything they can do to reduce the number of calls they receive will be desirable, because that is an extremely expensive way of servicing demand.
 

AlterEgo

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You do realise that not everyone actually has a mobile phone?
Brother in law doesn't, relies on his wife. My wife only has a basic phone, not a smart one.
That's fine. Those are all our choices to make and it would be daft to say there aren't consequences to our choices. If you don't want a mobile phone, or a smart phone - don't get one. Don't have a television, don't own a radio, don't own a car, don't own any shoes if you don't feel like it.

If you feel not having a mobile phone excludes you from some of life's opportunities - so what? That's your own lifestyle choice. I haven't had a personal Facebook profile for 15 years as I simply didn't want all my data and my face out there on Meta's platform. That is a lifestyle choice. Except I just bit the bullet and made one, because I realised that is where all the best local parenting groups are and where all the local news is shared, and now I've got a baby daughter, making one would be a better choice for both of us.

One thing this forum solidifies in me is the will to never be a miserable old man upset at The Latest Thing.
 
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OscarH

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No, they don't need it, but they choose to offer a service that is the best fit for what their customers ask for and doesn't require them to run multiple contact channels. And anything they can do to reduce the number of calls they receive will be desirable, because that is an extremely expensive way of servicing demand.
Who is to say SMS is the best fit for what their customers ask for, email is a far more standard way of communicating these things, with SMS being a smaller set of retailers.
 

35B

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Who is to say SMS is the best fit for what their customers ask for, email is a far more standard way of communicating these things, with SMS being a smaller set of retailers.
It depends on the retailer and the type of contact involved - but there are some (certainly any where the provision of the purchase may require rapid information) where SMS is simply better suited than email.
 

contrex

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We ceased our landline earlier this year as the only calls we ever received on that were scams. Those we actually wanted to speak to had our mobile numbers.
Same here, now that Virgin Mobile went with O2, and our 'notspot' mobile signal improved dramatically. However, when I asked Virgin Media to delete the landline option, they said that it would cost me more each month, as it was 'bundled' with their broadband service at a 'retention offer' discount, and breaking the bundle would remove that. They have also disabled the phone socket they (or rather, Telewest) installed in 2001 and now the phone plugs into their router, or would if we could be bothered (we can't). The only upshot seems to be a friend of my wife's who assumed she wasn't answering her voicemails (she had used the landline number in her address book). God alone knows what is on the voicemails/'after the tone' messages (poor deceased Mummy, probs, who passed 3 years ago aged 93), as we have not figured out how to access them from our O2 mobiles, or alter the outgoing message (me in a gruff voice from 15 years ago).
 

OscarH

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It depends on the retailer and the type of contact involved - but there are some (certainly any where the provision of the purchase may require rapid information) where SMS is simply better suited than email.
Sure - cases like Caledonian Sleeper where if there's a cancellation you need somewhere to sleep it makes sense to use SMS as a more urgent channel. But for normal retail (including railcards), I don't think there's a genuine reason to collect SMS instead of email
 

TUC

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I have made several Christmas present purchases from Amazon and other online retailers in the last day. They all have my phone number, and the delivery firm will text me to advise when they will be delivered. Our window cleaner has my number to advise when he will next be cleaning our windows. Asda has it, to advise when orders I have placed are ready for collection. Would I care about also giving it to purchase a railcard? Hard to see why I should care in the least.
 

Adam Williams

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I have never had a text message from Amazon for a delivery (one exception, locker collections - but these get sent as push notifications too, so they're entirely unnecessary), they use a combinations of push notifications and email and it works completely fine.
 

TUC

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I just double-checked. I've had several texts from Amazon, usually from the driver advising they will be arriving shortly.
 

michaelh

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Same here, now that Virgin Mobile went with O2, and our 'notspot' mobile signal improved dramatically. However, when I asked Virgin Media to delete the landline option, they said that it would cost me more each month, as it was 'bundled' with their broadband service at a 'retention offer' discount, and breaking the bundle would remove that. They have also disabled the phone socket they (or rather, Telewest) installed in 2001 and now the phone plugs into their router, or would if we could be bothered (we can't). The only upshot seems to be a friend of my wife's who assumed she wasn't answering her voicemails (she had used the landline number in her address book). God alone knows what is on the voicemails/'after the tone' messages (poor deceased Mummy, probs, who passed 3 years ago aged 93), as we have not figured out how to access them from our O2 mobiles, or alter the outgoing message (me in a gruff voice from 15 years ago).
I got a reduction of £5 per month from BT for ceasing the landline.
 

John R

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It would surely benefit their business to be as accommodating as possible to everyone?
Not really. If a business judges the cost of servicing a subset of customers is too high then it is perfectly logical to determine it doesn’t want to accommodate their needs.

A simple example is in relation to people who wish to pay by cheque.
 

The exile

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This is another of these issues where I don't think the nature of the query aligns with the reality of day to day life where giving one's mobile number is just a normal part of ordering items. After all, what's the point of having a phone to contact you if you don't want to give the number when ordering an item?
There are plenty of people (probably particularly the older generation - but I don’t want to make seeeping judgments) for whom a mobile phone is something for them to use if they need to contact someone when away from home- not the other way around. My father is exactly like that…
 

styles

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This is another of these issues where I don't think the nature of the query aligns with the reality of day to day life where giving one's mobile number is just a normal part of ordering items. After all, what's the point of having a phone to contact you if you don't want to give the number when ordering an item?
I believe people should, in the vast majority of cases, be able to choose their preferred method of communication.

If I'm buying a Railcard, I'm happy to give my email address which they can use in case there is a problem. I don't really want Railcard providers phoning me to discuss things; I'd rather they emailed their query, bearing in mind I still have the option to phone them.

Asking for a phone number is fine, but I would have it as an optional field.

The idea of the customer choosing their contact preference is simple to do, and in some cases already is a 'rule'. For example, creditors communicating with debtors have to communicate by means specified by the debtor if they state so. The FCA regulates this and the FOS takes it into consideration when dealing with disputes. I don't see why Railcards should be different really.

For some things, having a contact phone number being required may make sense, e.g. couriers trying to get hold of an addressee when they don't answer the door, but that's a bit different.
 

Vexed

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I just double-checked. I've had several texts from Amazon, usually from the driver advising they will be arriving shortly.
I started getting these a couple months ago from some drivers. It's really annoying, I've already got the helpful push notification it's 6/7 stops away. It means if there's a genuine reason the driver wants to contact me (eg can't find the house for whatever reason) I will ignore it because every previous time I've looked it's just a boilerplate message telling me to "secure" my non-existent pet - and the text doesn't even tell you the message, you have to open tap the link to read the message in Amazon's app!

Amazon Driver said:
I will arrive with your delivery soon. Please secure pets if you have them and turn on a light if it's dark.
 

Falcon1200

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If a business judges the cost of servicing a subset of customers is too high then it is perfectly logical to determine it doesn’t want to accommodate their needs.

It might be logical, but is it reasonable? A business exists to serve its customers. And I would say that is more true of those classed as a public service such as the railway.

A simple example is in relation to people who wish to pay by cheque.

A couple of years ago my Mum (95 years old) gave me a cheque to pay for her Railcard renewal, which was not of course accepted at the station! I was able to pay by card so not a big issue, and I fully understand why cheques are dying out, but there are those who still use them and are therefore disadvantaged when they are not accepted.

Back on topic, I should add my Mum does not have a mobile phone either, but that was not a problem for an in-person Railcard renewal at a station.
 

Tester

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Not really. If a business judges the cost of servicing a subset of customers is too high then it is perfectly logical to determine it doesn’t want to accommodate their needs.

A simple example is in relation to people who wish to pay by cheque.
A simple, but not equivalent example.

How is the cost of servicing customers increased if they do not provide (or pretend to provide) a mobile phone number?
 

35B

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It might be logical, but is it reasonable? A business exists to serve its customers. And I would say that is more true of those classed as a public service such as the railway.
A business exists to sell goods or services to its customers, and it will achieve it by providing those customers with those goods or services at a price that (typically) allows them to make a profit. It is entirely logical for businesses to decline to serve customers who cost too much to service except on terms that are affordable to them.

That is different from providing a public service, where profit is not the basis and higher transaction costs may be justified - but the public sector has been under huge cost pressure to reduce the cost of servicing demand, and has delivered a lot of those savings by reducing the amount of manual processing required (and cheques require a lot of clerical processing).
 
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