Rail ticketing sites not accommodating ECML engineering work

[TUC]

When searching for Kings Cross-Edinburgh fares on the LNER app, the following comment popped up in relation to today.

'Due to engineering taking place on Saturday 30 November and Sunday 1 December, there will be no direct LNER trains to and from London King’s Cross.
To find the best priced LNER trains, we recommend customers travelling between London and the North apply a search filter to specify travel ‘via St Neots’'.

All credit to LNER for adding this advice, but surely during engineering work it should not be dependent upon passengers to have to add such nuances? TOCs and those behind rail ticketing sites should do the necessary work to ensure that the best value tickets are available.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Journey planners generally show the fastest route by default. Given St Neots is on the ECML anyway, I can't think of any obvious way that LNER could manipulate the data to help in this instance.

 

[yorkie]

When searching for Kings Cross-Edinburgh fares on the LNER app, the following comment popped up in relation to today.


All credit to LNER for adding this advice, but surely during engineering work it should not be dependent upon passengers to have to add such nuances? TOCs and those behind rail ticketing sites should do the necessary work to ensure that the best value tickets are available.

LNER's journey planner isn't great; I don't think LNER have high standards or expectations for it as it doesn't really look at anything other than the fastest route (or direct trains)

The forum's site will come up with itineraries via Peterborough when the ECML is shut, where they are cheaper, as was the case earlier this year, when the trains to/from St Pancras were overwhelmed:

ECML Closure - How can we prevent other routes becoming overwhelmed.

We probably have had a number of threads, but is there anything we can do to stop some of the minor routes becoming overwhelmed when the ECML is closed. Looking at some big flows - this was the best route offer. Edinburgh - London, via West Coast various ways Newcastle - London, Train to...

www.railforums.co.uk

Journey planners generally show the fastest route by default. Given St Neots is on the ECML anyway, I can't think of any obvious way that LNER could manipulate the data to help in this instance.

If LNER ever wanted to show cheaper, slower journeys, they could switch to the journey provider that powers Trainsplit. But I don't think companies like LNER are interested in doing that.

 

[mad_rich]

via Sheffield is usually quicker than the timetabled journey via St Neots, so it defaults to showing East Midlands + Cross Country. I think most people would prefer the quicker route that's all by train.

Oddly, my train from St Neots - Newcastle last night was timetabled very slowly north of York. We arrived at Darlington and Newcastle 15 minutes ahead of schedule. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C47516/2024-12-01/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[TUC]

via Sheffield is usually quicker than the timetabled journey via St Neots, so it defaults to showing East Midlands + Cross Country. I think most people would prefer the quicker route that's all by train.

Oddly, my train from St Neots - Newcastle last night was timetabled very slowly north of York. We arrived at Darlington and Newcastle 15 minutes ahead of schedule. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C47516/2024-12-01/detailed#allox_id=0

Was the issue LNER highlighting that 'via St Neots' generates cheaper fares?

 

[SargeNpton]

May be that LNER hasn't yet asked for temporary easements in the Routeing Guide to allow for the alternatives routes and replacement buses.. Without them, the journey planners won't work properly.

 

[zwk500]

Oddly, my train from St Neots - Newcastle last night was timetabled very slowly north of York. We arrived at Darlington and Newcastle 15 minutes ahead of schedule. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C47516/2024-12-01/detailed#allox_id=0

The 15 minute's engineering allowance between Durham and Birtley Junction would account for the Newcastle time, although the 8 minute early arrival into Darlington is impressive - was the train originally booked Slow Line from York to Northallerton?

 

[mad_rich]

I don't know enough about how these things work. I kind of assumed there was slack in the timetable in case it had to wait at St Neots for late connections from Bedford. But all the slack is north of York.

 

[Bletchleyite]

May be that LNER hasn't yet asked for temporary easements in the Routeing Guide to allow for the alternatives routes and replacement buses.. Without them, the journey planners won't work properly.

The route is fine, you can get it to come up with fares (including Advances) if you put "via St Neots" as LNER advise. The issue is that the planners don't highlight these journeys because they're slower than using EMR connections. This is one of those things that is hard to avoid in the "new world" of journey planners, but in the days when tickets were just bought at booking offices people would have been advised accordingly. As a result, there were lots of empty or quiet Thameslink and Corby trains (and a very quiet replacement bus operation) and long queues for the EMR long distance trains.

 

[Segedunum]

The 15 minute's engineering allowance between Durham and Birtley Junction would account for the Newcastle time, although the 8 minute early arrival into Darlington is impressive - was the train originally booked Slow Line from York to Northallerton?

Sunday evening LNER services from King's Cross (1930/2000/2100/2200) are timed to use the slow lines York to Northallerton then have time added in after Durham as is typical for all services after a certain hour. If there's work planned that allowance might be spread out a little (I've travelled wrong line for part of Darlington to Durham before).

This also happens on weeknights but IIRC its just the 2200 off London that is regularly timed for the slow lines.

 

[TUC]

The route is fine, you can get it to come up with fares (including Advances) if you put "via St Neots" as LNER advise. The issue is that the planners don't highlight these journeys because they're slower than using EMR connections. This is one of those things that is hard to avoid in the "new world" of journey planners, but in the days when tickets were just bought at booking offices people would have been advised accordingly. As a result, there were lots of empty or quiet Thameslink and Corby trains (and a very quiet replacement bus operation) and long queues for the EMR long distance trains.

If all journey planners (as some do) had a fastest vs cheapest filter that would help address this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If all journey planners (as some do) had a fastest vs cheapest filter that would help address this.

For fairly obvious reasons LNER is not interested in pointing out the cheapest, as it's invariably not their service.

Unfortunately for them Lumo is often both fastest and cheapest, though