Rail noise vs Road noise

[alexl92]

Not sure if this is the right section? Apologies if not.

I'm part of a team preparing a business proposal for music rehearsal rooms & a live music venue. We've identified two potential sites: one near to Leeds West Jn, immediately outside Leeds Station which has a high volume of rail traffic including freight. The other is very near the Leeds Inner Ring Road.

At the moment it's all purely hypothetical but my question is which of the two - a busy dual carriageway or a large railway junction - is more likely to be an issue for somewhere like a rehearsal room in terms of noise and vibrations? The road is on a bridge above/next to the site in question, and Leeds West Jn is on a viaduct above/near to the site.

It's not for recording so absolute silence isn't necessary and things like horns are unavoidable but in terms of general traffic nose, which is louder/worse?

Cheers


N.B. These aren't the only sites we're looking at, they just happen to be two of the best in terms of positioning for our purposes. Also, planning permission etc comes later, unless there's any specific legislation about what can be put below or near a railway viaduct.

 

[cuccir]

Can you visit the site? Noise is very dependent upon the local topography and size of buildings.

The road noise is likely to be a more constant hum whereas the rail will have gaps in, but may be louder at particular moments, particularly with freight.

 

[Murph]

Can you visit the site? Noise is very dependent upon the local topography and size of buildings.

The road noise is likely to be a more constant hum whereas the rail will have gaps in, but may be louder at particular moments, particularly with freight.

The construction of the buildings will likely also make a big difference. A heavily built building with small windows should keep the noise and vibration out. Of course, it will also depend on just how much work you're going to do to the buildings, as interior fit out could significantly attenuate the noise.

Really what you need to do is sit in the buildings throughout the times you expect to be using them, and see what you can hear and feel. Remember that some rail freight movements might not be a daily thing, so try to figure out the worst possible days and see what it's like then. Keep in mind the possible need for ventilation on hot summer days, or if it's jam packed with people, and see what it's like with the windows open (if relevant).

 

[chuffchuff]

Give this lot a ring, as they're only 20 meterish from the railway between London Bridge and Waterloo East

LCCM London Centre Of Contemporary Music
50-52 Union Street, London SE1 1TD, United Kingdom ‎
+44 20 7378 7458 ‎

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The regulations concerning any assessment of noise and how it might impact on residences or other 'receivers' differ between noise produced by road, rail, airport, entertainment and general industrial activities.

Each of these are not normally compared with each other (but that's not to say that I agree that a comparison is invalid) but thay can easily be compared. Each of them have their own assessment framework:

Industrial Noise is assessed by the procedures and criteria set out in BS4142 (greatly updated in Nov 2014) though some local authorities will happly also apply these to entertainment noise (in my opinion, with good justification), and others will not.

Railway noise is assessed by the procedures and criteria set out in the Noise Insulation (Railway) Regulations under the Calculation of Railway Noise (CRN) 1995.

Road noise is assessed by the procedures and criteria set out in the DfT 1988 regulations under Calculation of Road Traffic Noise (CRTN).

Entertainment noise is generally captured by the Environmental Protection Act (EPA) Sections 79 & 80 and/or BS 8233 (or other references to absolute sound levels including guidance from DEFRA and the WHO), and/or the Noise Act 1996 with its 10dB 'window' above background, and or the Institute of Acoustics Guidance for music concerts (aka the Pop Code) and Control of Noise from Pubs and Clubs.

All of this is in addition to a finding of Nuisance in Common Law. And all of these are in addition to guidance on new (or modified) building work.

That covers the sources of noise that you've asked about. The building where your proposed project will be housed will have its own considerations, and over recent decades, the standards stipulated for broadcast studios have been relaxed, while the standards for residential accomodation has been made more resilient.

Studios, particularly broadcast studios, in the UK were subject to The Airborne Sound Insulation Requirements in Studios published by the BBC back in 1968 (and revisions), and these remained essentially an adopted standard while most of the UK's commercial radio and TV studios were being constructed.

Unlike performance venues (pubs, concert halls, theatres, arenas, cinemas, church, village and school halls, etc.), rehearsal rooms are not subject to the 2003 Licensing Act, but are still open to investigation by the local authority following a complaint about noise under Sections 79 & 80 of the Environmental Protection Act (EPA).

Give this lot a ring, as they're only 20 meterish from the railway between London Bridge and Waterloo East

If you wanted to speak to a qualified expert in the Southwark area, I'd recommend the Acoustics lab at the University of South London, who, in addition to having several nationally renowned experts in noise assessments, is also right next door to the Ministry of Sound and the new housing development which led to its closure, and to Strata, whose 3 turbines led to allegations of noise disturbance, but were not the reason for their decomissioning.

But there will be an Acoustics Consultant in your area, certified by the Institute of Acoustics (IOA) and I strongly advise you to seek their assistance. Alternatively, speak to the Head of Department - Tim South, Acoustics, Leeds Beckett University.

 

[strowger]

Not sure if this is the right section? Apologies if not.

I'm part of a team preparing a business proposal for music rehearsal rooms & a live music venue. We've identified two potential sites: one near to Leeds West Jn, immediately outside Leeds Station which has a high volume of rail traffic including freight. The other is very near the Leeds Inner Ring Road.

The building itself is probably going to make more difference than nearby noise sources.

Leeds Inner Ring Road is in a deep concrete canyon for much of its length and surprisingly quiet if you are "above" the noise.

 

[muddythefish]

Have lived within 200 yards of the ECML and half a mile of a busy dual carriageway in the past 25 years and I can say categorically that road noise is far worse - it never stops day or night.

To be honest I never noticed the trains whereas road noise is a constant irritation.

It does depend on location though - buildings can make a difference to block noise and roads (and railways) in cuttings tend to be less noisy.

 

[LateThanNever]

Have lived within 200 yards of the ECML and half a mile of a busy dual carriageway in the past 25 years and I can say categorically that road noise is far worse - it never stops day or night.

To be honest I never noticed the trains whereas road noise is a constant irritation.

It does depend on location though - buildings can make a difference to block noise and roads (and railways) in cuttings tend to be less noisy.

Thoroughly agree. Would only say that if you are near a viaduct heavy freight will be noticeable - but not for long! Unlike traffic...

 

[gordonthemoron]

Musicland (recording) studios in Munich were underneath an hotel in Arabella Park, they had to close once the U4 was built close by in the 1980s