Query about tickets

[cluelesslady]

Hello everyone, This is my first time posting. I couldn't find any information about this at all on the internet so hope that you can help me.

If I purchased Advance Single Ticket both ways , It is for from A to C but i am wanting to get on at B which is on the same exact route as A to C as the ticket from A to C is cheaper than it is for B to C. Is this Allowed or am I committing some kind of offence? I did check National Rail Website for this information. Also the train that is doing this route is the same company no matter what.

Thanks

 

[Paul Kelly]

Starting your journey at a station somewhere between the origin and destination shown on your ticket is treated as "break of journey" for the purposes of the fares rules, and unfortunately isn't allowed on advance tickets (although it is on most other tickets), so the answer is no, it's not allowed.

This is what the National Rail Conditions of Carriage say about it (Section 16, p7):

If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have used.

That actually sounds quite lenient, suggesting that e.g. if it was a train that off-peak tickets were valid on, you'd only have to pay the difference between the price of the off-peak single for the journey you were actually making and the price of the ticket you held. I'd say in practice though you'd be treated as though you didn't have a valid ticket at all in which case different conditions apply (Section 2, p2) and you'd have to pay the price of the full anytime single for the journey you were actually making, on top of the price of the advance ticket you already held. So not really recommended...

 

[cluelesslady]

Ah Thanks. They shouldnt advertise prices being cheaper on longer journeys than it is on shorter journeys.

I will have to buy tickets fae B to C at an extra cost than it would be for A to C.

Thank you although.

 

[Greenback]

Supermarkets do exactly the same thing. It can be cheaper to buy a large box of washing powder than a small one. Or 12 bread rolls rather than 8.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Hmm, they don't force you to eat all 12 bread rolls though. It's OK for you to throw 4 of them in the bin and only eat the 8 you were going to originally
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh and by the way, if you post details of the journey you want to make on here it's possible someone may be able to help find a cheaper option.

 

[clagmonster]

The more relevent part of the conditions of carriage is:
"16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you
want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to
some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant
Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other publications."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

The ticket conditions state:
"Break of journey
You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html

So advance tickets fall into the catogory of "some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited". Therefore, you may not purchase an advance ticket from A to C but only travel from B to C. I do agree that it is slightly unfair that there is no advance fare, even at the same price, from B to C.

Indigo, I slightly disagree with your interpretation of the excess. I believe you are correct when paying the excess before boarding the train or when boarding at an unstaffed station, but when paying the excess on the train or at the destination, I believe that the excess should be the difference between the highest price single for the journey made and the advance ticket held. This is because discounted tickets, such as cheap days, are not available on the train in those circumstances.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Ah yes, I see where you are coming from. I took "available for immediate travel" just to be a confusing way of describing any "walk-up" ticket. But if I treat it as being a catch-all to cover the different situations you describe (excessing the ticket in advance, boarding at an unstaffed station and excessing on the train etc.) it makes more sense why that wording would be used, i.e. "immediate" does indeed refer to what ticket types are on sale at the instant in time at which the excess is issued. Well it sounds obvious now but had me confused anyway...

 

[cluelesslady]

Thank you Indigo - I use scotrail website as it gives the cheap fares available so will use that to book the tickets.

Companies always need to make it clearer which tickets are okay to start or break a journey etc. Advance won't be as they are booked in advance and have specific reservations at times.

 

[transportphoto]

They do give the info to you!

Its just part of the bits most people don't read

 

[tony_mac]

that depends on what you mean - I have found that you usually have to go looking for the advance restrictions, you often aren't actually directed to read them.

 

[yorkie]

What is the journey you wish to make? We can investigate whether it is possible to find another, valid, way of making it cheaper...

 

[clagmonster]

Tony, in my experience of internet booking I have always had to tick a box stating that I have read and accept both the ticket conditions and the conditions of carriage. If someone books over the internet and doesn't read thosefully then I am afraid it is too bad.
When booking at a station, a summary of the conditions is stapled to the ticket and reservation, although this obviously not handed over until payment has been made. I would imagine that if a passenger read said card at the window and was not happy they would be refunded in full. The clerk also tells the passenger before issuing the tickets that they are non-refundable and for the booked train only. This seems to be a fare enough system to be, although I suppose it could be improved by offering the passenger the opportunity to read the conditions before paying.
I would be interested to know how much information you are given when booking by telephone. I suspect in those cases people may have a case about restrictions not being made clear.

 

[tony_mac]

Have a look at the Scotrail site!

There is a link to the advance terms, but you aren't directed to click on it, nor are you required to confirm that you read them.

As I recall, on Eastcoast, there is a box to say that you read them, but the ticket conditions aren't even linked to from that page - only earlier in the booking process.

It really isn't as obvious as you think it is, or as obvious as it should be!

BTW, I have never seen a copy stapled to a ticket at a station, is that really always done? (and does it mention starting late or ending early?)

The restrictions you mention - 'non-refundable and for the booked train only' does NOT say you can't join late or end early.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

BTW, I have never seen a copy stapled to a ticket at a station, is that really always done? (and does it mention starting late or ending early?)

Nor me.

 

[clagmonster]

Fare enough, evidently not all booking offices do this but whenever I have bought advance tickets at a station I have been given the card. Here is a scan for you, the reservations are stapled on so 1/4 of the card is covered up but the bit about break of journey should be visible.

 

[clagmonster]

Sorry, I've had to do the attachments in two posts. I hope they're readable.

 

[MikeWh]

I remember booking an advance single by phone from Clapham Junction to Weymouth last year. The sales clerk at SWT was very clear about the not leaving early. After he mentioned it we had a discussion about what might happen if I tried to get off at Upwey at about 11pm. He gave the impression that there might not be a problem, but he really wasn't going to commit himself at all. He also explained several other restrictions including that the ticket was non-refundable. Finally he arranged TOD at Crayford.

 

[transportphoto]

If I ever book AP tickets at my local station then I always get this card - it is the same if I collect TOD from the booking office instead of the TVM.

Also they always circle/underline the time/date as shown in the attachment of post #15

 

[cluelesslady]

Sorry for taking a while to reply, Busy.

In the 7 years that i been taking trains, booking in advance. I can say that I have NEVER received a card stating terms and conditions of the tickets. I have booked from Aberdeen station, Inverurie station, Dundee Station and have never got one of those cards at all. So it is all new to me that some stations do give them out with the bookings, and also they never circle or underline the time/dates.

I already booked my tickets, Thank you to the poster that offered to help to look for cheaper tickets, I knew my tickets that i ended up booking was cheaper but not as cheaper as it was for A to C but still.