Quadruple Track - Longest

[Lee_Again]

Thanks for everyones' responses. Some interesting debates going on. Looks like the winner, then, is Kentish Town to just north of bedford.

My thoughts on the 'Northampton' thing... 4 tracks means you climb over a fence, cross 4 lines, then climb over another fence. If there's fences between 2 pairs of tracks (for anything other than a small obstruction) then the lines are seperate. Clearly Northampton doesn't meet that criteria by some distance.

And where do you draw the line? Does the Hertford Loop make the ECML 4 track to Huntingdon? Does the route via Birmingham make the WCML 4 track all the way to Stafford? Surely some debates in there for another time.

Final question (promise!). Apart from Welwyn, was the ECML ever 4 track all the way to Stoke. I know the Potters Bar tunnels are circa. 1950's but not sure about the rest of the line.

 

[MCR247]

Thanks for everyones' responses. Some interesting debates going on. Looks like the winner, then, is Kentish Town to just north of bedford.

My thoughts on the 'Northampton' thing... 4 tracks means you climb over a fence, cross 4 lines, then climb over another fence. If there's fences between 2 pairs of tracks (for anything other than a small obstruction) then the lines are seperate. Clearly Northampton doesn't meet that criteria by some distance.

And where do you draw the line? Does the Hertford Loop make the ECML 4 track to Huntingdon? Does the route via Birmingham make the WCML 4 track all the way to Stafford? Surely some debates in there for another time.

Final question (promise!). Apart from Welwyn, was the ECML ever 4 track all the way to Stoke. I know the Potters Bar tunnels are circa. 1950's but not sure about the rest of the line.

The Hertford Loop would make the ECML 6 star Alexandra Palace - Stevenage! hock:

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just to throw a spanner into the works, am I right in thinking that Waterloo to Clapham Junction is the longest bit of six tracking in the country?

Or is it seven tracks? Not sure how far the relief line runs...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
.
.
.

The Hertford Loop would make the ECML 6 star Alexandra Palace - Stevenage! hock:

No, because of the Welwyn Viaduct...

 

[MK Tom]

Thanks for everyones' responses. Some interesting debates going on. Looks like the winner, then, is Kentish Town to just north of bedford.

My thoughts on the 'Northampton' thing... 4 tracks means you climb over a fence, cross 4 lines, then climb over another fence. If there's fences between 2 pairs of tracks (for anything other than a small obstruction) then the lines are seperate. Clearly Northampton doesn't meet that criteria by some distance.

And where do you draw the line? Does the Hertford Loop make the ECML 4 track to Huntingdon? Does the route via Birmingham make the WCML 4 track all the way to Stafford? Surely some debates in there for another time.

Final question (promise!). Apart from Welwyn, was the ECML ever 4 track all the way to Stoke. I know the Potters Bar tunnels are circa. 1950's but not sure about the rest of the line.

Not saying you're wrong in any way, just for the sake of argument, where do you draw the line the other way? Is the Sharnbook tunnel line the MML relief line or a separate branch? What about the split and rejoin between Croydon and Three Bridges?

 

[Old Timer]

Thanks for everyones' responses. Some interesting debates going on. Looks like the winner, then, is Kentish Town to just north of bedford.

My thoughts on the 'Northampton' thing... 4 tracks means you climb over a fence, cross 4 lines, then climb over another fence. If there's fences between 2 pairs of tracks (for anything other than a small obstruction) then the lines are seperate. Clearly Northampton doesn't meet that criteria by some distance.

And where do you draw the line? Does the Hertford Loop make the ECML 4 track to Huntingdon? Does the route via Birmingham make the WCML 4 track all the way to Stafford? Surely some debates in there for another time.

Final question (promise!). Apart from Welwyn, was the ECML ever 4 track all the way to Stoke. I know the Potters Bar tunnels are circa. 1950's but not sure about the rest of the line.

Under BR and HMRI requirements, any line with more than three running lines had to have a 10-foot, either between the outside and the inside lines, or between the centre lines. Therefore a four track line would have in cross section :-

cess / Line 1 / 6-foot / Line 2 / 10-foot / Line 3 / 6-foot / Line 4 / cess
OR
cess / Line 1 / 10-foot / Line 2 / 6-foot / Line 3 / 10-foot / Line 4 / cess

Not saying you're wrong in any way, just for the sake of argument, where do you draw the line the other way? Is the Sharnbook tunnel line the MML relief line or a separate branch? What about the split and rejoin between Croydon and Three Bridges?

It depends upon the boundary fence line. Anything contained within it becomes part of the "line".

As far as the Train Signalling Regulations were concerned each section of the route from St Pancras to Glendon North Jct, all the lines were "adjacent lines", as is the case with other four track sections of railway.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just to throw a spanner into the works, am I right in thinking that Waterloo to Clapham Junction is the longest bit of six tracking in the country?

Or is it seven tracks? Not sure how far the relief line runs...

The line designations vary along the route, but there are a minimum of 7 tracks throughout and 8 tracks over the majority of the distance.

 

[Tomnick]

Sharnbrook's an interesting one - the slow line formation does deviate from the fasts quite widely north of Sharnbrook Tunnel (and has its own boundary fences and ELR), but I'm sure both appear side-by-side in the Sectional Appendix and the line designations ('Fast' and 'Slow') are consistent with the whole lot being treated as a single route (which isn't the case with the Northampton loop).

 

[12CSVT]

Sharnbrook's an interesting one - the slow line formation does deviate from the fasts quite widely north of Sharnbrook Tunnel (and has its own boundary fences and ELR), but I'm sure both appear side-by-side in the Sectional Appendix and the line designations ('Fast' and 'Slow') are consistent with the whole lot being treated as a single route (which isn't the case with the Northampton loop).

Although unusual, the formation at Sharnbrook is far from unique, for example the up and down lines at Saunderton (Chiltern Line) have different alignments, likewise there are separate up and down tunnels at Patchway, and 'fast' and 'slow' tunnels between Watford Junction and Kings Langley.

 

[MK Tom]

What about the bit past Reigate? Where the Brighton services take the fast lines and skip out half a dozen stops. I'm pretty sure they're on two separate alignments with fences there.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yes, but they are totally separate for about 6 or 7 miles in the north Redhill / south Coulsdon areas!

 

[Lee_Again]

I don't think we'll agree on a single 'definition', which is good. All the arguments so far are well considered and open to opinion.

How about this further 'clarification'. If you can buy a house between the lines then they are considered a loop. This certainly rules out Northampton, and I presume Sharnbrook. I guess it excludes the Brighton main line too although I'm not familiar with that area. It doesn't, however, rule out the very slight deviation north of Watford through the tunnels.

 

[mr_jrt]

Just to throw a spanner into the works, am I right in thinking that Waterloo to Clapham Junction is the longest bit of six tracking in the country?

Or is it seven tracks? Not sure how far the relief line runs...

for that I'd go with Primrose Hill to Bushey, (or Euston to Bushey or Watford Junction, depending on how generous you want to be).

Though, don't forget Finchley Road to Harrow on the Hill as well.

 

[MK Tom]

Yes, but they are totally separate for about 6 or 7 miles in the north Redhill / south Coulsdon areas!

That's kind of my point, if they can be that separate and still be the same line, I think Northampton can be too. It just seems daft to me for NR and everyone else to treat Northampton separately when functionally it just acts as the WCML slow lines in every respect.

 

[NSE]

Right at Wembley Park and for about 100/200 meters more, it's 8 track

 

[Zoe]

That's kind of my point, if they can be that separate and still be the same line, I think Northampton can be too.

They are not, one is the Victoria to Brighton Line and the other is the Redhill Line.

 

[Waverley125]

out of interest, if the 4 tracks over Holme fen were to be reinstated, what would that give on the ECML? Given that it'd be Knebworth-Stoke, I'd guess 70 miles?

 

[Zoe]

out of interest, if the 4 tracks over Holme fen were to be reinstated, what would that give on the ECML? Given that it'd be Knebworth-Stoke, I'd guess 70 miles?

Was it ever four tracks all the way? The 1960 Sectional Appendix shows four tracks from Woolmer Green to Huntingdon, then three to Stuckley, then four to Connington, then two to Yaxley and then three to Fletton Junction.

 

[NSE]

I can see the confusion or discussion with the WCML, but not the BML, they are the same line. They are so close they even dive over each other at one point. Also, being pedantic, the line that bypasses Redhill is the Quarry line.

 

[Zoe]

I can see the confusion or discussion with the WCML, but not the BML, they are the same line. They are so close they even dive over each other at one point. Also, being pedantic, the line that bypasses Redhill is the Quarry line.

The letters BML are officially allocated to the Bournemouth Main Line from Waterloo to Weymouth but I see you are referring to line from Victoria to Brighton. The Redhill Line is a separate line to the Victoria to Brighton Line that runs via what became known as the Quarry Line. Just as a line is close to another does not make it part of the same line and in any case at one point they are about half a mile apart. The Hanslope, Northampton and Rugby Line starts at Hanslope Junction even though it runs parallel to the main line as far as Roade.

 

[a good off]

Was it ever four tracks all the way? The 1960 Sectional Appendix shows four tracks from Woolmer Green to Huntingdon, then three to Stuckley, then four to Connington, then two to Yaxley and then three to Fletton Junction.

I can confirm what Zoe says. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/6364234235/in/photostream

 

[Ivo]

Am I right to think that it is four(-or-more)-tracked all the way from Waterloo to Worting Junction, west of Basingstoke? I know it's not as long as some of the others here but that's still a substantial distance.

 

[Eagle]

Post 18, Scott... :P

 

[Ivo]

Sorry Eagle

I would say "insert brain here", but having been afflicted with a migraine for six hours today I'm not so sure about that

I did a search for "Basingstoke", but it didn't occur to me to try "Worting". I thought I'd read the whole thread; apparently not...