Protocol for presenting split tickets for on-train inspection?

[redreni]

I used to show my Railcard as a matter of course when it lived in its blue Railcard holder in my wallet.

Now it's on my phone I only show it if asked, which introduces a short delay if they want to see it as I have to open a separate app to show it. The industry incentivises the use of app-based Railcards through making some special offers (on the purchase of Railcards) conditional on agreeing to have them issued in that format.

I'm sure they imagine they're tightening up revenue protection by giving staff a barcode to scan and a product that can't be presented to them once it's expired. What actually happens is guards don't ask to see them because if they did, they'd never get round the train in any sort of reasonable timeframe.

 

[Krokodil]

If you’re showing it in an app, I find the guard can often tell at a glance whether there is a second ticket waiting. They’ll sometimes ask where I’m off to and will ask to see the second one if relevant to that train.

Often there will be dots at the bottom showing other tickets held (which could of course include the return). I was also familiar with the common split points so when presented with a ticket from A-B (when most traffic from both A and B is to C) I'd ask them if B was their final destination. Usually it wasn't.

I used to ask to see all tickets held, even the ones for their onward connection. This allowed me to give more detailed advice:

"your onward ticket is LNW only, these usually depart from platform 7 [now 12] (which is down the other end) at 13 minutes past the hour, look for a green train".

"You've got an advance ticket for the 12:32, cross the bridge to platform 5, you're seat reservation is booked in coach B which will be near the rear of the train."

"You've got a flexible ticket so if you make it over the bridge in time for the 12:23 you're free to take it from platform 5, unreserved seating is in coach C. Otherwise you've got a reserved seat in coach F on the 12:32, also from platform 5."

Usually when checking it's quite obvious if it's a split ticket, also, down our way, a lot seem to be split at St Germans or Saltash for some reason, it's handy when the passenger does show all tickets as these are short platforms - which is irrelevant if it's a split ticket but very relevant if they're actually traveling there and it's a 9/10 car IET!

I once had a couple of Japanese tourists who showed me tickets to a request stop with a short platform. I asked several times to clarify that it was indeed their destination before advising them that they'd need to use the front coach. When we got there, I had to go and find them. On the platform they said "we change here?", so I asked again where they were trying to get to. "London". So I ushered them back onboard and they showed me the other tickets.

 

[RJ]

Before split ticketing became mainstream behaviour it was certainly easier just to show the one being used at that point, unless queried.

 

[walkingsophie]

At barriers I have been asked once and once only, at the international platforms of Waterloo, and only then because my travelcard had demagnitised which then meant the RPI probably assumed it was a manual block.

My standard paper tickets don't work the barriers at Waterloo, so I've been asked many times when using paper tickets. I have never been asked at the gatelines with e tickets yet though.

 

[Kite159]

.

Usually when checking it's quite obvious if it's a split ticket, also, down our way, a lot seem to be split at St Germans or Saltash for some reason, it's handy when the passenger does show all tickets as these are short platforms - which is irrelevant if it's a split ticket but very relevant if they're actually traveling there and it's a 9/10 car IET!

Likewise on SWR as Feniton/Whimple have gained more usage with split tickets, both stations with short platforms. Irrelevant if it's a split, but relevant if it's a 6 coach set and they are in the rear coach etc.

That is slightly strange as Loch Eil Outward Bound is not a request stop (the next stop Locheilside is) although it does have a short platform for those alighting requiring a specific door.

At one point Sugar Loaf on the Heat of Wales line was a splitting point when searching for fares on that line, no doubt other little used request stops have popped up on split tickets over the last couple of years.

 

[Timbo999]

Surprised that a ticket further down the split itinerary can be scanned (or even clipped for a physical ticket) until the first station covered by the split has been passed. A passenger might choose to end or break their journey at the split point. Until that point is passed they have an unused ticket for that section of the journey - presumably once it has been scanned it becomes a "used" ticket. Would have assumed that scanning software would not allowed a premature scan - unless it's a non-stop split, perhaps.

 

[RPI]

Surprised that a ticket further down the split itinerary can be scanned (or even clipped for a physical ticket) until the first station covered by the split has been passed. A passenger might choose to end or break their journey at the split point. Until that point is passed they have an unused ticket for that section of the journey - presumably once it has been scanned it becomes a "used" ticket. Would have assumed that scanning software would not allowed a premature scan - unless it's a non-stop split, perhaps.

A lot of the time they're advance tickets anyway, which aren't refundable anyway.

 

[Kite159]

Surprised that a ticket further down the split itinerary can be scanned (or even clipped for a physical ticket) until the first station covered by the split has been passed. A passenger might choose to end or break their journey at the split point. Until that point is passed they have an unused ticket for that section of the journey - presumably once it has been scanned it becomes a "used" ticket. Would have assumed that scanning software would not allowed a premature scan - unless it's a non-stop split, perhaps.

The percentage of passengers who will suddenly decide to break their journey will be low. The ticket for B-C will be scanned by the member of staff between A & B if it gets presented, just will have a message pop up saying something like "Station B not reached until XX:YY".

If someone is planning to break their journey at station B, then the simple case is not to present the ticket for B-C and if asked "are you getting off at B" to say yes.

 

[Djgr]

Let em guess. It's hardly the fault of the traveller that the railway "industry" ,through their bizarre fares structure, has pushed them into having multiple tickets.

 

[zero]

If it's a single local train I will usually have tickets to the train's destination ready. If it's a long-distance train I tend to just prepare to show the ticket valid at the point I'm inspected.

If someone is planning to break their journey at station B, then the simple case is not to present the ticket for B-C and if asked "are you getting off at B" to say yes.

But it gets complicated if you have tickets A-B + B-D and you are travelling A-C (i.e. break of journey on B-D ticket).

This is quite an interesting one.

Last week, I was travelling Avanti to Edinburgh in Standard Premium. A couple opposite were gripped by the TM after Stafford and their SP upgrades were only from Euston to Coventry, where their tickets were split (they were going to Oxenholme).

They weren't seasoned travellers, so had presented their ticket to the previous TM and requested an upgrade, so presumably they didn't notice it was unusually cheap or that it was only as far as Coventry.

Much consternation ensued when they were requested to upgrade again, with them claiming they had already upgraded. Also the two separate upgrades were significantly more expensive than the single upgrade for their whole journey would have been. In the end, it was agreed they would pay the difference, but as the machine couldn't cope with that, they were let off.

However, perhaps it's a lesson to always show all the tickets for the train you're on.....or maybe it's not.......! They saved about £30 each........!

One time I had split CCSTs, placed both tickets on the table and the guard only charged me for the first split.

He must have assumed the second ticket was the return portion of the first, but they were actually both return portions. He didn't say anything when I unknowingly remained in 1st for the second split and I only noticed I was undercharged later.

When I lived in Leicester and travelled regularly to London I formed the habit of ignoring guards if they came round and said things like "tickets from Loughborough and Leicester" or similar, to see if they would notice that I'd boarded at Leicester and ask me for my ticket. They never did. Not even once. That was many years ago, though, under a now-defunct TOC.

I seem to be invisible to 50% of guards, at least in standard class.

Even on long-distance trains from the first stop, where they should be checking every ticket, I have lost count of how many times I get skipped. Sometimes I sit at a table and then get "trapped" by a large group - quite often the guards check the group and don't notice I'm not part of the group.

I do have my ticket ready for inspection but if they just walk past my seat without stopping I'm not going to wave them back...

 

[Edvid]

Travelled with EMR from St Pancras (STP) to Bedford (BDM) yesterday, tickets split at Luton Airport Parkway (LTN).* The conductor scanned my first ticket (and Railcard**) at the platform entrance, then scanned my second ticket (and Railcard**) during the on-train inspection.

[* Not the usual - both day returns were from LTN and the journey leg was STP to BDM via LTN (called there en-route)]
[** I am not liable for any spit-takes on your computers, phones or other objects ]

 

[TUC]

I do think this is one of those issues where most passengers just get on and do whatever they do without worrying or overthinking it.

 

[sh24]

"I've got a couple of tickets to show you " beep, beep, all done.

No need for a protocol or overthinking what to do.

 

[daveo]

On a trip from Manchester Piccalilli to Southampton, just after Stockport, I asked the Guard whether he wanted the ticket I was on or all of them. He asked for them all. He then told me he'd gripped up to Banbury, after which there would be another check. There wasn't!

 

[bunnahabhain]

As a Guard I'd like to see all of them at the same time, however I'll only scan for the part of the train I'm working, so if I'm working from A-B and you've got a ticket from B-C, then I'll leave that for my colleague to clip.