Prosecution letter SWR

[FG2025]

Hi. In November, I travelled on SWR with a ticket bought using my senior railcard. For the first time ever i was asked to present the railcard by the guard, and totally forgot (stupidly) that I had renewed the physical card in 2022 with an electronic one, on the railcard app. Thus, the card I showed him was an expired one. He said he had to notify SWR, took my details, and on we went with the journey. When I got home, I realised my mistake, could not find a way to inform SWR that I did indeed have a valid railcard, and waited to hear from them. Heard nothing, & assumed they’d discovered my railcard In their records.

But then last week, I received a prosecution letter, which starts as per the screenshot. I responded to the supplied email address, was asked for a screenshot of the railcard on the app “because we do not have access to railcard data” and sent a photo of it (after pointing out the app doesn’t let you take screenshots) after which the prosecution was cancelled.

What I’d like is people’s thoughts on the prosecution. Mine are (1) what evidence were they basing the prosecution on, when I was being prosecuted for not having a railcard and they don’t have access to the railcard data, (2) the amount - is this normal for this kind of prosecution as it seems ridiculously high- there is no breakdown to explain where the figures come from, (3) I wasn’t sent a letter previous to this one asking me if I want to pay a penalty (which I gather is much much lower than £1200), (4) how many other people get prosecuted for such a large amount without any previous attempt to provide evidence on way or another?

Your thoughts will be gratefully received. It isn’t me that I’m concerned about as I have had the prosecution cancelled, but I am concerned about the system itself if this is regarded as acceptable to SWR.

 

[skyhigh]

(2) the amount - is this normal for this kind of prosecution as it seems ridiculously high

They will have looked at your purchase history and assumed you had no valid Railcard post the expired one you showed the inspector. The fare avoided will be the Anytime fares they think you should have paid.

(3) I wasn’t sent a letter previous to this one asking me if I want to pay a penalty (which I gather is much much lower than £1200)

I assume you are referring to a Penalty Fare. These can only be issued in person, not via post.

(1) what evidence were they basing the prosecution on

That you couldn't show the Railcard when asked.

 

[Gloster]

1 - even if you have a valid, in-date railcard appropriate to the ticket, it is an offence to be unable to show it when checked. It is normal for the matter to be sent for further investigation.

2 - they have presumably assumed that you have not had a railcard for some time and that all other tickets on their records that were bought with a railcard were thus invalid. In such circumstances they normally request the full Anytime Single fare for each and every journey, i.e. two fares for a return journey, and then add their investigation costs, which usually start at £120.

Others will better explain 3 and 4.

 

[AlterEgo]

What I’d like is people’s thoughts on the prosecution. Mine are (1) what evidence were they basing the prosecution on, when I was being prosecuted for not having a railcard and they don’t have access to the railcard data

You weren't being prosecuted on this basis. You were being threatened for prosecution likely for a single Bylaw 18 offence which was boarding a train without a valid ticket in a non-compulsory ticket area. You were categorically guilty of this offence; not having presented a valid railcard means your ticket was not valid; it is a strict liability matter meaning no intent need be proven. You remain guilty of this offence even if you find/present the railcard later, although a term of the railcard is that you may have any extra fare or Penalty Fare cancelled on one occasion provided you send it in subsequently. Notably, this written right does not extend to prosecutions, but SWR have decided to apply it in this case anyway.

(2) the amount - is this normal for this kind of prosecution as it seems ridiculously high- there is no breakdown to explain where the figures come from

They've audited your prior online transactions here on the fairly reasonable assumption you did not have a valid railcard - as you had shown the inspector an expired one, and asked for the Anytime fares for those times since the expiry of that railcard. (I agree it should be broken down and this is bad practice by many train companies). The company can only prosecute you for the incident at the time of the stop, but may ask for the other fares as settlement to avoid prosecution for this one offence.

(3) I wasn’t sent a letter previous to this one asking me if I want to pay a penalty (which I gather is much much lower than £1200),

Penalty Fares are only issued at the time of the stop and are for £100 plus the single fare (reduced to £50 if paid within 21 days). You don't usually get penalty fared for a lack of railcard - the company reports you instead so they can see how many other fares were likely avoided.

(4) how many other people get prosecuted for such a large amount without any previous attempt to provide evidence on way or another?

The company had sufficient evidence and could have prosecuted you for the single instance anyway. It's quite simple - on the day you were stopped, you didn't have the railcard available to inspect, so you didn't have a valid ticket. The large amount represents a trawl of your transactions for which you subsequently provided evidence that you did have a valid railcard and that no offence was committed on those previous dates.

 

[minderbinder]

(4) how many other people get prosecuted for such a large amount without any previous attempt to provide evidence on way or another?

A recent news report revealed that Chiltern alone recovered £1,165,617 in unpaid fares during 2024. This was across all categories of unpaid fares but my understanding is that railcard fraud makes up an increasing percentage of fare-dodging. Take a brief scroll through this subforum and you will see that a lot of people are deliberately cheating the railway and that TOCs’ revenue protection departments are increasingly active in finding them.

The down-side to this is that someone such as yourself, who actually holds a valid ticket but makes a mistake when asked for it, gets given the third degree.

The company had sufficient evidence and could have prosecuted you for the single instance anyway. It's quite simple - on the day you were stopped, you didn't have the railcard available to inspect, so you didn't have a valid ticket. The large amount represents a trawl of your transactions for which you subsequently provided evidence that you did have a valid railcard and that no offence was committed on those previous dates.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I don't see that OP committed an offence.

Bylaw 18.1 states that "no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel". OP had a valid ticket as OP holds a valid Senior Railcard.
Bylaw 18.2 states that "a person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person" OP handed over his ticket for inspection. The ticket appeared to the guard to be invalid because OP mistakenly handed over the wrong railcard, but this clause does not stipulate that the ticket that is presented has to be valid.

It was perfectly reasonable for the guard to assume that OP's ticket was invalid, but my understanding is that OP committed no offence. I would be interested in thoughts on this.

 

[furlong]

There is indeed a lot wrong with letters like this, which should never have been sent, as we discuss on here from time to time. Good luck if you want to try escalating this with a view to finding some way of forcing them to improve their behaviour in future! So far nobody has had much success in this.

 

[skyhigh]

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I don't see that OP committed an offence.

Bylaw 18.1 states that "no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel". OP had a valid ticket as OP holds a valid Senior Railcard.

The ticket isn't valid without the supporting documentation being shown on request.

 

[Haywain]

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I don't see that OP committed an offence.

Bylaw 18.1 states that "no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel". OP had a valid ticket as OP holds a valid Senior Railcard.

If you are unable to show a valid railcard to support a discounted ticket the ticket is not considered valid, so an offence is committed. However, T&Cs allow a railcard to be forgotten once in a 12 month period without penalty, subject to the railcard being produced subsequently.

 

[minderbinder]

The ticket isn't valid without the supporting documentation being shown on request.

If you are unable to show a valid railcard to support a discounted ticket the ticket is not considered valid, so an offence is committed. However, T&Cs allow a railcard to be forgotten once in a 12 month period without penalty, subject to the railcard being produced subsequently.

Thanks both. I defer to your greater knowledge.

 

[Cuthbert]

It states so in the T&Cs of the rail card too. I think it is in bold. Used to be.

 

[AlterEgo]

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I don't see that OP committed an offence.

Bylaw 18.1 states that "no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel". OP had a valid ticket as OP holds a valid Senior Railcard.

The ticket is not valid if it is not accompanied by the railcard, a simple and uncontroversial principle. Merely having bought a railcard does not make the ticket valid; that is specifically why there is the carve-out clause which allows grace for this offence is it is disposed of by way of Penalty Fare or new ticket.

If someone with a railcard but who doesn't have it with them shows an inspector the ticket and no railcard, they may properly be disposed of by way of Penalty Fare as no valid ticket was shown.

NRCoT 8.5 explains:

8.5 If you are travelling with a Railcard discounted Ticket and are unable to present the Railcard when asked by the staff or authorised agents of a Train Company, you will be treated as having joined a train without a valid Ticket and Conditions 9.1 – 9.5 will apply.