Prosecution Advice

[matpil]

Hello,

First, I would like to thank everyone on this forum as the advice provided here really helped me out yesterday when I received the Single Justice Procedure Notice from Thameslink.

I have followed the general advice (apologetic email, will avoid making the same mistake, would like to settle out of court etc.) and emailed their prosecution team late yesterday evening, but as it is now after lunch and I have not heard from them I would like to ask some additional questions just in case. It is Sat, so I would assume they are not working today, so I shouldn't be worried that they are not replying? When should I call them and what number should I use, if they do not reply on Mon as well?

My last question is regarding SJPN itself. On the cover it says I have 21 days to reply, but the date of posting states 11/12/24 (with the same delivery date on the envelope), while I have only found it in my letterbox yesterday. I know for a fact it could not have been there on 27/12/24, as I had picked up a parcel from my letter box that day. I am very concerned that they would just proceed with the verdict without my answer, and by the time Thameslink reads my email it will be too late. I really don't want to get a criminal conviction over something as simple as a £13 fair. The whole situation seems surreal to me, if I am being honest.

I will be happy to provide any documentation if needed.

Any and all help is appreciated!

 

[John R]

Please do provide the documentation, along with full details of the incident that has led to it. Then as well as discussing the procedural aspects of the case, we can explore whether there are any other avenues to pursue.

 

[matpil]

Apologies for not providing them straight away. I wanted to save some time, as I have followed the advice given to another person on this forum and just had some follow up questions.

Please do provide the documentation, along with full details of the incident that has led to it. Then as well as discussing the procedural aspects of the case, we can explore whether there are any other avenues to pursue.

Please see SJPN attached.

For describing the incident: I was traveling from Canterbury West to Gatwick Airport and had appropriate tickets, but I forgot to check my railcard before buying the tickets. During ticket inspection at Gatwick I failed to produce a valid railcard. Due to a bad connection I could not access it at all, so the person checking told me to send them the rail card asap and provided all the details where I should be sending it. When I had an internet connection again, I realised my railcard was ~1 month out of date. I have submitted the report to Thameslink, with a full account of the events and being very truthful and apologetic. In the incident report I have said I was more than happy to pay any and all fines for my mistake. It was an honest mistake and I have purchased a new railcard immediately. I got an automated reply from Thameslink after which they did not contact me again, at that point I assumed the incident was over. Yesterday, I received the first correspondence (to the best of my knowledge) from Thameslink. It was the SJPN which was dated back to 11/12/24. I panicked and started to look for answers, which is when I found this wonderful forum. Following advice given to the person in a similar situation, I have emailed gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com. Again, I took full responsibility, apologised and admitted my fault, assuring them it will not happen again. I further asked them if this matter can be settled out-of-court, but have not heard from them since (approx. 15:30 yesterday). I understand it's the weekend, but I am still a bit worried as the date on which SJPN would place me over the 21 day deadline they gave me to reply. On top of all that I am about to apply for a full residence status and a criminal conviction is the last thing I want on my otherwise perfect record after almost 14 years in this country.

So, my questions are:
Should I be worried they are not replying ?

If so, should I be calling them now? Or should I wait until Monday?

Should I be worried if the 21 day deadline has already passed? What are the chances they have arealy convicted me?

 

[John R]

Quick comment - your name is visible on page 3, so you may wish to delete and reload with it hidden.

 

[GregSmith2025]

You said:

"When I had an internet connection again, I realised my railcard was ~1 month out of date. I have submitted the report to Thameslink, with a full account of the events and being very truthful and apologetic. In the incident report I have said I was more than happy to pay any and all fines for my mistake."

Here’s the thing: what prompted you to send that report? Did Thameslink send you a letter asking for an explanation first? Usually, they write to you before going straight to an SJPN (from what I have gathered from my short time on the forum).

Also, how did you send your report? Was it by email or by post?

 

[matpil]

Quick comment - your name is visible on page 3, so you may wish to delete and reload with it hidden.

Ups, thank you for that, corrected

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2025 ==

You said:

"When I had an internet connection again, I realised my railcard was ~1 month out of date. I have submitted the report to Thameslink, with a full account of the events and being very truthful and apologetic. In the incident report I have said I was more than happy to pay any and all fines for my mistake."

Here’s the thing: what prompted you to send that report? Did Thameslink send you a letter asking for an explanation first? Usually, they write to you before going straight to an SJPN (from what I have gathered from my short time on the forum).

Also, how did you send your report? Was it by email or by post?

The ticket controller told me to send the report, when he was recording the incident. From what I have read here, it does appear that they send preliminary letters before sending an official SJPN but I did not receive any. I do not check my mail box regularly, so there is a possibility I have missed it. There was no follow up at all, which was very unusual.

The report was sent via their website and I still have an automated confirmation email (see attached) from them saying that they have accepted my incident report.

 

[GregSmith2025]

Ah, okay, so there’s a good chance you might’ve missed a letter. From what I’ve gathered here, train companies like Thameslink usually send a letter first asking for an explanation, and they’re super strict about the deadlines for responding. If they don’t hear back within a set time, they tend to move things straight to prosecution.

I’d definitely check your mailbox ASAP and double-check the address you gave them (since they’ll use your home address, not email, from what peeople say here).

Also, just a heads-up: from what I’ve seen on the forum, being proactive and sending a report isn't encouraged, the general advice is that it is usually better to wait for their official letter and respond to that. Figuring out if they sent you something you missed feels like step one here.

 

[John R]

In terms of timing I wouldn't panic too much, as for one thing, you will not have been convicted yet. The 21 days ran out on New Years Day, and so there won't have been enough time yet to actually go through the SJPN process. Besides, the 21 days included the Xmas and New Year break, including three bank holidays, so I would be very surprised if they do not take that into consideration when reading your email. And of course the investigation staff will have been on leave too, so there will be a bit of a backlog to work through.

Also, you sent your email through at 1530 on Friday, so it's unreasonable to expect them to read it and respond before the weekend, despite the urgency.

I'm guessing your first response was to send it through to the "forgotten railcard" address, or a general customer service address? I think they actively discourage these being used to submit pleading requests not to be prosecuted, so it may be that it wasn't read or forwarded. However, it sounds like you have sent the follow up yesterday to the prosecutions address, so it should be read in due course.

One final point - they may have checked your online account for other incorrect purchases, if you bought your ticket online. So if they do offer you a settlement (and GTR are about the most pragmatic operator for offering settlements, so I am optimistic they will), they may also include any other journeys taken since your railcard expired.)

 

[matpil]

In terms of timing I wouldn't panic too much, as for one thing, you will not have been convicted yet. The 21 days ran out on New Years Day, and so there won't have been enough time yet to actually go through the SJPN process. Besides, the 21 days included the Xmas and New Year break, including three bank holidays, so I would be very surprised if they do not take that into consideration when reading your email. And of course the investigation staff will have been on leave too, so there will be a bit of a backlog to work through.

That is very reassuring, thank you.

Also, you sent your email through at 1530 on Friday, so it's unreasonable to expect them to read it and respond before the weekend, despite the urgency.

That is what I have thought, just wanted to double-check.

I'm guessing your first response was to send it through to the "forgotten railcard" address, or a general customer service address? I think they actively discourage these being used to submit pleading requests not to be prosecuted, so it may be that it wasn't read or forwarded. However, it sounds like you have sent the follow up yesterday to the prosecutions address, so it should be read in due course.

I have followed the instructions of the person who stopped me at the gates, but as you say it is irrelevant now as I have sent an email to the prosecution's address.

One final point - they may have checked your online account for other incorrect purchases, if you bought your ticket online. So if they do offer you a settlement (and GTR are about the most pragmatic operator for offering settlements, so I am optimistic they will), they may also include any other journeys taken since your railcard expired.)

I am OK paying any and all fines, just as long as they settle out of court. Plus, I do not travel regularly, so I would not think I will have any other purchases without a railcard.


This is very reassuring, thank you very much for your help. I might actually be able to sleep tonight...

 

[Haywain]

Should I be worried they are not replying ?

Since 15:30 on a Friday afternoon? No.

If so, should I be calling them now?

You'll get no response on a Saturday.

Should I be worried if the 21 day deadline has already passed? What are the chances they have arealy convicted me?

You're only 2 days past the deadline, so it's not likely to be crucial. But you should enter a plea as soon as possible. A not guilty plea will mean a full hearing which will require a summons to be issued, giving time to approach GTR.

 

[matpil]

Ah, okay, so there’s a good chance you might’ve missed a letter. From what I’ve gathered here, train companies like Thameslink usually send a letter first asking for an explanation, and they’re super strict about the deadlines for responding. If they don’t hear back within a set time, they tend to move things straight to prosecution.

I’d definitely check your mailbox ASAP and double-check the address you gave them (since they’ll use your home address, not email, from what peeople say here).
Also, just a heads-up: from what I’ve seen on the forum, being proactive and sending a report isn't encouraged, the general advice is that it is usually better to wait for their official letter and respond to that. Figuring out if they sent you something you missed feels like step one here.

Thank you for your advice!
I think i might have phrased it badly. That report was a "Forgotten Railcard" report, where I elaborated that since the incident I understood that my railcard was out of date.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2025 ==

Since 15:30 on a Friday afternoon? No.

I know it sounds silly and thank you for indulging me. It's a big deal for me, so I just want to make sure I am not missing something.

You'll get no response on a Saturday.

You're only 2 days past the deadline, so it's not likely to be crucial. But you should enter a plea as soon as possible. A not guilty plea will mean a full hearing which will require a summons to be issued, giving time to approach GTR.

They require an explanation to pleading not guilty. What should I say?

Should I just say I intend to settle this matter out of court with the offended party?

 

[Trainbike46]

I would note that there a various unique reference numbers (both GTR reference numbers and URNs) visible in the letters above. I'd recommend replacing the pictures with pictures where those are blocked out as well, because those numbers could possibly be traced back to you.

 

[John R]

I would note that there a various unique reference numbers (both GTR reference numbers and URNs) visible in the letters above. I'd recommend replacing the pictures with pictures where those are blocked out as well, because those numbers could possibly be traced back to you.

That's an interesting observation. Whilst we always recommend hiding personal details, as who wants their details publicly available, I don't think there would be any downside to GTR being able to identify the case, and indeed, given the nature of the case, it might help get a quicker resolution, as the person seeing it could then intervene.