Proposals for a tram system linking Leeds & Bradford

[Ben427]

Which is what he wrote:


In the specific case of Leeds though, I'd like to see some movement back towards the CAZ/LEZ plans that were abandoned, with any funds raised ploughed back into integrated transport schemes including Mass Transit.

Unfortunately the CAZ plans were stopped by govt due to improvements in air quality

I completely agree though, the vast majority of private cars don't need to be entering the city centre/inner ring road.

However the lack of a proper orbital road in Leeds makes it challenging

 

[Roast Veg]

It looks like the rumours that the spending review is generous for capex is correct, at least as far as this project goes. I just received this email from the WYCA:

Major funding boost secured for West Yorkshire trams



Ambitious plans to bring trams back to West Yorkshire, and deliver a multibillion-pound boost to the economy, have secured a major funding boost from the government.



The Chancellor Rachel Reeves today (Wednesday 4th June) has announced the allocation of £2.1 billion of local transport funding to West Yorkshire which will enable the Combined Authority to get spades in the ground on West Yorkshire's tram project by 2028.



Speaking ahead of next week's Spending Review, the Chancellor joined West Yorkshire Mayor Tracy Brabin at a bus depot in Huddersfield where she unveilled the West Yorkshire's 'transport for city regions' funding for 2027-2032. The funding will also support other vital transport infrastructure projects across the region including new bus stations in Bradford and Wakefield, extensive bus priority measures and cycleways on the A641 and North Kirklees transport corridors, and access improvements to unlock regeneration across six key neighbourhoods bordering on Leeds City Centre.



The first phase of West Yorkshire's Mass Transit network will create two tram lines - a Leeds Line, running from St James’s University Hospital through the city centre to the White Rose, and a Bradford Line, connecting Bradford and Leeds city centres.



This represents the region’s biggest infrastructure project in decades and will form part of an integrated transport network, under the single Weaver Network branding, connecting bus, tram and train services as well as walking and cycling routes.

 

[BerkshireRails]

Do we know if it will be a low or high floor system?

Do we know if it will have Tram-Train operation?

 

[TheWierdOne]

Do we know if it will be a low or high floor system?

Do we know if it will have Tram-Train operation?

I don’t think it’s known yet. The graphics on the combined authority website look very low-floor-ish but they are very clearly marked “for illustrative purposes only”. I would imagine low floor would be the preferred option as it makes stop infrastructure less intrusive and easier to navigate.

 

[Anetos]

Why is infrastructure around here so god damn expensive to work on (especially the "Northern Powerhouse Rail"'s Transpennine Route Upgrade, only supposed to be the first part of an "integrated rail plan" for HSR between Warrington and Marsden) and are there any viable alternatives to this tram network?

 

[Roast Veg]

are there any viable alternatives to this tram network?

No alternatives to the current scheme have been widely published by any group.

Unlike Manchester and Birmingham, Leeds doesn't have a lot of former trackbed to build on, and the ground conditions around Leeds station aren't favourable to any underground work due to the river.

The only "alternative" would be increased electrification and capacity enhancements to the urban rail network. TRU is bringing a little of that, as are some tweaks to Leeds and Bradford stations, but that work is separately funded and not blocked by the WYCA mass transit project.

 

[may032]

Why is infrastructure around here so god damn expensive to work on (especially the "Northern Powerhouse Rail"'s Transpennine Route Upgrade, only supposed to be the first part of an "integrated rail plan" for HSR between Warrington and Marsden) and are there any viable alternatives to this tram network?

Maybe BRT or VLR, but then for all the disruption from creating the corridors, you don’t get the same capacity.

 

[Ken H]

No alternatives to the current scheme have been widely published by any group.

Unlike Manchester and Birmingham, Leeds doesn't have a lot of former trackbed to build on, and the ground conditions around Leeds station aren't favourable to any underground work due to the river.

The only "alternative" would be increased electrification and capacity enhancements to the urban rail network. TRU is bringing a little of that, as are some tweaks to Leeds and Bradford stations, but that work is separately funded and not blocked by the WYCA mass transit project.

Thete a wide quadrant between the Harrogate Line and the line through Crossgates with no rail route. Only the circituous route from Crossgates to Wetherby is gone. Which is why trams up Headingley Lane, Chapletown Rd, Roundhay Rd and York Road did so well

Not sure a heavy rail into N Leeds would work. But trams may work if you can keep them away from traffic jams


Dont think of putting a tramline up the central reservation of Scott Hall Rd. There is a socking great gas pipeline put in in the 1960's not far down. Part of conversion from town gas to North Sea gas???

 

[TheWierdOne]

Not sure a heavy rail into N Leeds would work. But trams may work if you can keep them away from traffic jams

Some buildings on the Otley Road are subtly designed with trams in mind, as a hangover from the super tram. The Headingley Arndale has a curved rear to facilitate the tram track sweeping behind it

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Do we know if it will be a low or high floor system?

Do we know if it will have Tram-Train operation?

As stated by others, nothing is known as yet... But we can probably make a few educated guesses...

I'd be very surprised if high floor vehicles were chosen, only one (Manchester) of the "new generation" tram systems in the UK went for high-floor and that was largely because the initial routes were both converted from heavy rail. Despite further extensions also converting heavy rail routes, I suspect that there are some regrets about going down that route (pun intended) as there aren't really any advantages to high-floor beyond the initial cost savings of not having to rebuild every platform. Whilst high-floor trams aren't unheard of elsewhere (Köln has a mix of high and low floor routes), low-floor trams are much more widespread so procurement of vehicles is generally easier and cheaper. There aren't any obvious existing rail routes that would be suitable for conversion, so that's another tick in the "low floor" column.

The same goes for tram-trains, the only obvious candidates would be Ilkley (already electrified at 25kv AC, and interworks with other routes) or Harrogate (Harrogate is in North Yorkshire so there would be funding and jurisdictional complications there). Possibly the Bradford to Ilkley arm of the "not-a-triangle" could be tram-trains but you're adding complication for not much of a benefit (you might get a frequency uplift, but the overall capacity gains would be marginal). Not as much freight goes up the Settle & Carlisle these days, but the junctions around Shipley would still be troublesome in terms of capacity. Add in the single line section through Baildon and you're not going to be able to offer "turn-up-and-go" frequencies without a lot of spending.

 

[Roast Veg]

The same goes for tram-trains, the only obvious candidates would be Ilkley (already electrified at 25kv AC, and interworks with other routes) or Harrogate (Harrogate is in North Yorkshire so there would be funding and jurisdictional complications there).

There is no proposal to convert the line to Harrogate, however the Leeds to Otley route is proposed to go via Horsforth and the airport. Like Leeds to Bradford, there's no requirement to use the existing heavy rail line between Leeds and Horsforth. If anything, a service that touches Headingly Otley Lane and Horsforth Town Street could be much more useful.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There is no proposal to convert the line to Harrogate, however the Leeds to Otley route is proposed to go via Horsforth and the airport. Like Leeds to Bradford, there's no requirement to use the existing heavy rail line between Leeds and Horsforth. If anything, a service that touches Headingly Otley Lane and Horsforth Town Street could be much more useful.

Perhaps a bit premature when there hasn't been a spade in the ground yet, but perhaps a future "phase 2" extension would be to extend the Otley line through to Bradford?

I wasn't actually suggesting that the Harrogate route should be converted, just using it as an example of which routes would be candidates if a "Manchester Metrolink" approach was being taken. Harrogate and Ilkley would be the least troublesome routes to use if we were using that approach. That's not to say either would be in any way sensible!

 

[thomalex]

Some buildings on the Otley Road are subtly designed with trams in mind, as a hangover from the super tram. The Headingley Arndale has a curved rear to facilitate the tram track sweeping behind it

It was built like that because it was to have a motorway running behind it, and supertram was taking on that alignment

 

[YorksLad12]

Some buildings on the Otley Road are subtly designed with trams in mind, as a hangover from the super tram. The Headingley Arndale has a curved rear to facilitate the tram track sweeping behind it

The Arndale was built in 1964; well before the plans for Leeds Supertram.

It was built like that because it was to have a motorway running behind it, and supertram was taking on that alignment

There was no motorway planned in or through Headingley (it doesn't appear on Pathetic Motorways, for one), but there were regular proposals for a Headingley Bypass; I doubt it would have happened, given the amount of housing and greenery that would be sacrificed. This site (https://a660.org/headingley-bypass-history/) records several objections and a bit of financial shenanigans too. The A660 is now down to one lane, plus cycle lanes on either side

I wasn't actually suggesting that the Harrogate route should be converted, just using it as an example of which routes would be candidates if a "Manchester Metrolink" approach was being taken. Harrogate and Ilkley would be the least troublesome routes to use if we were using that approach. That's not to say either would be in any way sensible!

The Harrogate Line was an early contender for tram-train or tram conversion about 20 years ago. You couldn't do it now the Leeds end is all built over, though a sharp turn onto the old Leeds Central viaduct, dropping down through the old goods yards and onto Wellington Street to City Square might have been interesting.

 

[Roast Veg]

Perhaps a bit premature when there hasn't been a spade in the ground yet, but perhaps a future "phase 2" extension would be to extend the Otley line through to Bradford?

The outline diagram of the complete system includes a route to Otley from Bradford, meeting the line from Leeds at Guiseley. I strongly suspect that - if anything - this route will manifest as capacity upgrades on the existing Bradford to Ilkley heavy rail route. I can't see a future where a change at Guiseley for Otley isn't required.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The outline diagram of the complete system includes a route to Otley from Bradford, meeting the line from Leeds at Guiseley. I strongly suspect that - if anything - this route will manifest as capacity upgrades on the existing Bradford to Ilkley heavy rail route. I can't see a future where a change at Guiseley for Otley isn't required.

I could see there being some political pressure for Bradford to also have a direct link to the Airport though. It is named "Leeds Bradford Airport" after all.

 

[Ken H]

@YorksLad12 there was a plan in the 60/70's for a Pudsey - Dishforth motorway running west of leeds through Pudsey and Horsforth, then near Harrogate. They went east of Leeds instead as an M1 extension.

 

[BerkshireRails]

The Harrogate Line was an early contender for tram-train or tram conversion about 20 years ago. You couldn't do it now, the Leeds end is all built over, though a sharp turn onto the old Leeds Central viaduct, dropping down through the old goods yards and onto Wellington Street to City Square might have been interesting.

It might still be possible with a compulsory purchase order. The Leeds Tram would most likely require a Transport and Works Act, giving the powers for a Compulsory Purchase Order.

 

[bluenoxid]

It might still be possible with a compulsory purchase order. The Leeds Tram would most likely require a Transport and Works Act, giving the powers for a Compulsory Purchase Order.

The amount of development in this area now would make it very difficult. Access to a number of large buildings would need some serious work.

 

[YorksLad12]

The amount of development in this area now would make it very difficult. Access to a number of large buildings would need some serious work.

Indeed. From west to east you'd have to pull down some newly-built flats, plough through the Monk Bridge Viaduct Garden, then build a ramp through 7 & 8 Wellington Place... home to the DfT in Leeds.