Pressing the bell on buses, London v Outside

[Goldfish62]

It all seemed to work fine in those ‘olden days’. Passengers knew to ring once to alight at a request stop. No illuminated signs so I guess on occasion someone else rang it too. But no major health & safety dramas - it wasn’t invented then

What an odd comment!

 

[Bletchleyite]

What an odd comment!

Not really. Years ago H&S was less valued, so if some kid did dispatch the bus with the conductor running after it, it'd just be one of those things, even if someone did get hurt as a result.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not really. Years ago H&S was less valued, so if some kid did dispatch the bus with the conductor running after it, it'd just be one of those things, even if someone did get hurt as a result.

The illuminating stopping sign is for people who are deaf or hard of hearing. That's not H&S, that's just being helpful!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The illuminating stopping sign is for people who are deaf or hard of hearing. That's not H&S, that's just being helpful!

The way I read it that poster wasn't referring to the presence of the sign (which indeed isn't about accessibility per-se, though helpful for deaf people they could always ring again so wouldn't be disadvantaged by its absence) but rather the issue of the bell being misused to leave a conductor behind for a laugh, which I'm sure did happen.

 

[Deerfold]

Fine now maybe. Living in the Home Counties I don't recall anything telling me that white bus stops were now red bus stops in disguise at the time. Like the post I was responding to I only found out when the stop, which still displayed a "compulsory" flag, was ignored by the driver.

All London stops are now treated the same - but they should be treated as compulsory stops - the driver should stop unless they're sure no=one is boarding or alighting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All London stops are now treated the same - but they should be treated as compulsory stops - the driver should stop unless they're sure no=one is boarding or alighting.

Not quite.

The rule for London is now the same as the rule in most of Europe, that is that if you wish to alight you must use the bell at any stop, but the driver should only drive past a stop if they can see for absolute certain nobody is at the stop wanting the bus, i.e. the grossly irritating provincial approach of flying past overtaking stopped buses at a stop unless you're the same route and know the stopped buses aren't part-route nor full isn't on.

 

[Mikey C]

All London stops are now treated the same - but they should be treated as compulsory stops - the driver should stop unless they're sure no=one is boarding or alighting.

Why should buses stop at stops when nobody is waiting at the stop, and nobody has pressed the "stop" button to get out? All that does is slow the service down and make buses less attractive.

I've been confused by this whole thread really. When I'm on a bus, and want to get off I press the stop button. On Routemasters in the old days, I'd pull the chord to ring the bell.

 

[Deerfold]

Why should buses stop at stops when nobody is waiting at the stop, and nobody has pressed the "stop" button to get out? All that does is slow the service down and make buses less attractive.

They shouldn't. If there's no-one waiting at the stop them no-one wants to board. If no-one has pressed the bell, presumably no-one wants to alight.

The only difference is that they should stop if people are waiting but haven't put their arm out unless they've been clear they don't want the bus (I'd still recommend putting your arm out to be clear).

 

[Lewisham2221]

The way I read it that poster wasn't referring to the presence of the sign (which indeed isn't about accessibility per-se, though helpful for deaf people they could always ring again so wouldn't be disadvantaged by its absence) but rather the issue of the bell being misused to leave a conductor behind for a laugh, which I'm sure did hahappen.

Actually, the illuminated sign in the passenger saloon is an accessibility requirement...

 

[geoffk]

That's regional too. On London Routemasters you did it yourself.

In 1960s Bristol, passengers rang the bell and sometimes conductors told you off if it got pressed twice for the same stop "I'll give you all a bell if you want". But when I did the same in Sheffield, arriving as a student, that was definitely wrong and the conductor told me in no uncertain terms that ringing the bell was her job. I had to call out "next stop please". Today in Exeter the bell is often pressed more than once even though there's an illuminated "bus stopping" sign - for the reasons given above. We even press the bell for city centre stops.

 

[Mikey C]

They shouldn't. If there's no-one waiting at the stop them no-one wants to board. If no-one has pressed the bell, presumably no-one wants to alight.

The only difference is that they should stop if people are waiting but haven't put their arm out unless they've been clear they don't want the bus (I'd still recommend putting your arm out to be clear).

Even in the latter case, especially in London and major bus corridors in other cities where lots of routes serve the same stop, I'd expect passengers at the stop to make an obvious signal that they want to get on, the obligation should be on them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even in the latter case, especially in London and major bus corridors in other cities where lots of routes serve the same stop, I'd expect passengers at the stop to make an obvious signal that they want to get on, the obligation should be on them.

Which is extremely passenger-unfriendly and poses an accessibility issue (not everyone can run to the back of a queue of buses and into the road to wave down their bus which is about to fly past a queue of other ones), which is why London correctly removed the requirement and most of Europe doesn't do it either.

The only sensible approach is "stop if you're not sure there isn't anyone wanting your bus", which is the European (and now London) norm.

 

[lachlan]

Which is extremely passenger-unfriendly and poses an accessibility issue (not everyone can run to the back of a queue of buses and into the road to wave down their bus which is about to fly past a queue of other ones), which is why London correctly removed the requirement and most of Europe doesn't do it either.

The only sensible approach is "stop if you're not sure there isn't anyone wanting your bus", which is the European (and now London) norm.

Another accessibility issue is partially sighted people can't see the bus from far away. If it's a busy stop with multiple services calling the driver should stop or at least slow down significantly so we can determine if it is our bus. If in doubt I'll flag down every bus until I get the one I want. Apps with live trackers help but not everyone has access to that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another accessibility issue is partially sighted people can't see the bus from far away. If it's a busy stop with multiple services calling the driver should stop or at least slow down significantly so we can determine if it is our bus. If in doubt I'll flag down every bus until I get the one I want. Apps with live trackers help but not everyone has access to that.

The best way to solve that issue is to design stop layouts properly so you don't get those long queues nor a single stop shared by many different routes. However unfortunately Councils aren't very good at this, and TfL aren't that much better (though they are better).

But the "stop unless you definitely need not to" policy does seem the best one to me. If you're alone at a stop and don't want a bus you can always adopt the time-served German way of communicating that you don't want it - shake your head and step back visibly from the kerb.

 

[GusB]

As the topic has now started to drift away from the original subject, along with the fact that there is very little more to be said on the matter, we can draw this thread to a close. Thanks for all your contributions.