Possible South Wales Metro Tram Extensions?

[slowroad]

Another reason why I suggested wiring the VOG to Penarth but also Llantwit Major or ewenny to Bridgend

Surely better value to simply upgrade the batteries, giving ongoing battery improvements

 

[Smwrff]

Much as it might make operational sense, I think that electrifying any part of the VoG while ignoring the SWML west of Cardiff would be politically impossible for NR/GBR.

Which is why I suggested electrifying only to Barry & Penarth for the high frequency TfW routes. But let VoG wait until NR stumps up the cash for SWML (inc VoG) electrification.

Barry to Bridgend should then be possible using batteries.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2026 ==

While the current Crossrail plans (Phase 1A & 1B) are relatively modest, there are some interesting options in the future phases. In the Council Planning Documents (see agenda item 60 - item 2 Appendix B) it shows the Penarth line being incorporated into the Crossrail and/or Circle line with a connection from Callaghan Square north towards Queen Street.

But how? Would it require a viaduct across Callaghan Square? Or is there room for a rising ramp to be built alongside the existing viaduct (similar to the one to the south).

And could it incorporate a Herbert Street station?

 

[anthony263]

Which is why I suggested electrifying only to Barry & Penarth for the high frequency TfW routes. But let VoG wait until NR stumps up the cash for SWML (inc VoG) electrification.

Barry to Bridgend should then be possible using batteries.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2026 ==

While the current Crossrail plans (Phase 1A & 1B) are relatively modest, there are some interesting options in the future phases. In the Council Planning Documents (see agenda item 60 - item 2 Appendix B) it shows the Penarth line being incorporated into the Crossrail and/or Circle line with a connection from Callaghan Square north towards Queen Street.

But how? Would it require a viaduct across Callaghan Square? Or is there room for a rising ramp to be built alongside the existing viaduct (similar to the one to the south).

And could it incorporate a Herbert Street station?

I think there is room for them to build a ramp and bridge across to join the bay line towards queen street. A station at Callanghan square could take pressure off central

 

[Smwrff]

From a traffic perspective it would be better to build a ramp on Callaghan Square leading up to a bridge over Bute Street - but not so much from a visual perspective - or cost.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2026 ==

But if you are going to build a bridge then maybe it should connect south as well - and also replace Herbert Street bridge to remove the bottleneck on the road junction (this was planned earlier by CC but now dropped). A new three-way elevated junction!!!

 

[EveningStarr]

There is potential for Treherbert to get 4tph before the track work, if the current Bay-Pontypridd diagrams extend (dependent on successful implementation of enough 398s), thus not increasing the number of trains through CDQ. I say Treherbert, as they run 12 minutes after the previous ones, so would create a more-or-less quarter-hourly service to TRB.

 

[Daniel Boone]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/whole-new-uk-town-created-36616806

The development extends beyond just residential properties. It will also incorporate a new community hub featuring shops alongside a metro station and transport hub, reports WalesOnline.

The former Hoover site in Merthyr is undergoing development. Some talk of a new station to serve it.

 

[anthony263]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/whole-new-uk-town-created-36616806

The former Hoover site in Merthyr is undergoing development. Some talk of a new station to serve it.

Yes and they're are concerned it will affect the current closest station at Quakers yard

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Yes and they're are concerned it will affect the current closest station at Quakers yard

Pentre-Bach is the station close by.

 

[anthony263]

Pentre-Bach is the station close by.

Sorry that's the one

 

[tigermonstera]

There's more information about the proposed station included in the planning application (P/25/0165 on Merthyr's planning portal), especially on pages 63-64 of the Design and Access Statement and in TFW's consultation responses:

Phased Delivery & Safeguarding

• Ensure the future metro station and transport hub can be seamlessly integrated without disrupting initial residential development.

• Safeguard a 15m corridor for future infrastructure, including public open space, active travel routes, and public realm enhancements.

• Phase the design of the pylon area, facilitating access to residential units while allowing for the future integration of a bus turning and transport interchange area.

(From the DAS)

As noted above, an area of land has been safeguarded along the western boundary of the site, which could be developed in the future to accommodate a metro station. The development of the metro station itself does not form part of this application, as this would need to be delivered by Transport for Wales who are responsible for the railway network. However, the intention is to ensure sufficient land remains available for such purposes should this come forward in the future.

It is acknowledged that concerns were raised as a result of the publicity exercise in respect of the potential loss of the existing train station in favour of the Metro Station. At this stage there is only an intention to safeguard an area of land to accommodate a potential metro station in the future. There is no certainty that this would come forward or that it would impact on the existing Pentrebach Train Station. This would be subject to separate considerations in conjunction with Transport for Wales who are responsible for the railway line.

(From the committee report)

 

[anthony263]

A station at Glyncoch is long overdue i think

 

[MikePJ]

While the current Crossrail plans (Phase 1A & 1B) are relatively modest, there are some interesting options in the future phases. In the Council Planning Documents (see agenda item 60 - item 2 Appendix B) it shows the Penarth line being incorporated into the Crossrail and/or Circle line with a connection from Callaghan Square north towards Queen Street.

But how? Would it require a viaduct across Callaghan Square? Or is there room for a rising ramp to be built alongside the existing viaduct (similar to the one to the south).

And could it incorporate a Herbert Street station?

I think you're referring to this diagram? It's the only one in the referenced document that shows the service pattern.

If you are, I think you've misunderstood it. This is a diagrammatic map and it hides the details around Cardiff Central and Callaghan Square. If you look at the detailed design drawings in the same document (see attached) there is no mention of a future alignment branching off in Callaghan Square and heading towards Queen St. What I understand from the diagram below and the wider design drawings is that trains coming from Penarth will either continue to use the existing route into Central and then on to Queen St and Coryton, or they will diverge at Cardiff West Junction, go down the proposed ramp to the tram platforms outside Central's south entrance, and then continue via Callaghan Square to the Bay. We can only speculate as to service patterns, but Coryton-Penarth-Cardiff Bay-Penarth and repeat seems likely given the diagram.

 

[Smwrff]

Yes - I see your point with this diagram which is ambiguous.... but I thought I saw a more specific proposal in an earlier document...let me try and find it

 

[edwin_m]

I can't see how a route from Callaghan Square up to Queen Street would be remotely feasible without demolishing much of the square itself and probably the Bay line too. It's also unnecessary, as it would be paralleling the existing rail connection.

 

[The Pelican]

A Central-queen street service via a series of street tram sections, on the other hand, might make the trams more visible in the city centre, as has helped in Manchester, and allow one or two extra stops near to where people are shopping or using offices. After Queen Street, it could rejoin one or the other of the two routes which head north. This would allow for trams to run through Cardiff without using Queen Street's northern junction. As in Manchester, it would probably be cheap compared to the cost of the scheme as a whole, and make it obvious to the public that there is a new tram system.

 

[Smwrff]

I can't see how a route from Callaghan Square up to Queen Street would be remotely feasible without demolishing much of the square itself and probably the Bay line too. It's also unnecessary, as it would be paralleling the existing rail connection.

It is 'relatively' easy - the tram would need to rise onto a viaduct on Callaghan Square - to cross over Bute Street before turning north to join Bay line to Queen Street.

Not saying it will happen - only that it is feasible.

 

[edwin_m]

It is 'relatively' easy - the tram would need to rise onto a viaduct on Callaghan Square - to cross over Bute Street before turning north to join Bay line to Queen Street.

Not saying it will happen - only that it is feasible.

Almost certainly incompatible with going towards the Bay as well, which is much more useful.

 

[Smwrff]

Almost certainly incompatible with going towards the Bay as well, which is much more useful.

No - still feasible and compatible. Think of the three way raised junction on DLR

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2026 ==

I knew I had seen this somewhere - see attached article showing Cardiff Circle Line proposal - clearly showing tram line crossing Callaghan Square and then splitting north to Queen Street and south to Bay.

The maps and full details of Cardiff's £1bn 'Crossrail' plan revealed

Cardiff has drawn up a blueprint for a £1bn plan to bring tram-trains back to the streets of the city

www.walesonline.co.uk

But ok - this is not for Penarth services.

 

[positron]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/whole-new-uk-town-created-36616806

The former Hoover site in Merthyr is undergoing development. Some talk of a new station to serve it.

If it's towards the north end of the site then I don't think it's that much of an impact on the existing station.

Troedyrhiw is already fairly close to the south. The tram trains are designed for exactly this.

Costs more but potentially pentre could be moved a little to the south, to even the spacing a bit if there is a concern of redundancy.

 

[MikePJ]

No - still feasible and compatible. Think of the three way raised junction on DLR

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2026 ==

I knew I had seen this somewhere - see attached article showing Cardiff Circle Line proposal - clearly showing tram line crossing Callaghan Square and then splitting north to Queen Street and south to Bay.

The maps and full details of Cardiff's £1bn 'Crossrail' plan revealed

Cardiff has drawn up a blueprint for a £1bn plan to bring tram-trains back to the streets of the city

www.walesonline.co.uk

But ok - this is not for Penarth services.

Thanks - I'd not seen that before, but that's a 2019 article, so it looks like that was an option that was evaluated and ruled out. The John Street development, which appears to have been subject to a planning application in 2025, will eventually fill the space between the main and Bay railway lines with two new residential tower blocks - if Cardiff Council (lead on Crossrail) and TfW had decided that they needed that piece of land they'd have put protection in for it by now.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks - I'd not seen that before, but that's a 2019 article, so it looks like that was an option that was evaluated and ruled out. The John Street development, which appears to have been subject to a planning application in 2025, will eventually fill the space between the main and Bay railway lines with two new residential tower blocks - if Cardiff Council (lead on Crossrail) and TfW had decided that they needed that piece of land they'd have put protection in for it by now.

It may be feasible at the cost of slapping a ramp down in the middle of what's supposed to be a prime site for Cardiff. But I come back to my previous question - what's the point if it just duplicates the route from Central main line platforms?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

It may be feasible at the cost of slapping a ramp down in the middle of what's supposed to be a prime site for Cardiff. But I come back to my previous question - what's the point if it just duplicates the route from Central main line platforms?

None at all so far as I can see, unless you buy the weird argument that unless people see trams running on the streets, they won't realise they exist.

 

[Smwrff]

I am not suggesting this will happen - or is desirable - but it was planned at one stage and is still feasible.

Many years ago the plan was to replace Herbert Street bridge and widen the road junction there to let trams under the bridge before turning south. That plan has unfortunately been scrapped.