Possible break in Salzburg

[crispy1978]

My wife is a big fan of The Sound of Music, and has fancied travelling to Salzburg to experience where it was made, etc.

She hasn't flown before (she will have by the time we do this trip - possibly in late 2015) - so we are looking at making the journey by train.

I've looked at the superb Seat61 website which gives various options for travelling. I was wondering if anyone has first-hand experience of doing this journey, and any potential pitfalls of the journey.

I've never done an international journey before on trains (apart from Bruges to Ostend, which is a short 15 minute trip) - so any additional advice relating to this would be much appreciated.

 

[khib70]

Have been to Salzburg on a day trip from Munich. It takes about an hour and three quarters, there are regular services and it's a pretty scenic journey. Salzburg is beautiful both in its setting and its buildings. They tend to play up the Mozart connection rather than the Julie Andrews one, though!

Salzburg was included in the Bavarian regional day ticket (don't know if it still is) which currently costs 27 euros altogether for two people, and covers practically all public transport in Bavaria, including the entire Munich public transport network, and all other cities. It's great value, but not valid on ICE or IC services.

There's an overnight sleeper service from Paris to Munich, which you probably saw on the marvellous Seat 61. Other people on here are more knowledgeable about that. Details of everything can also be found on the excellent Deutsche Bahn site at www.bahn.de, available in English.

That whole area is beautiful, and has some interesting trains as well. Enjoy.

 

[northwichcat]

One thing to note is München Hauptbahnhof is huge - much larger than any UK station with a total of 40 platforms (including the S-Bahn and U-Bahn platforms.)

Just noticed what was the DB Regio between Munich and Salzburg has been replaced by a Meridian service but it looks like the Bayern ticket 27,00 EUR for 2 people is still valid on it, if you want to use a cheaper slower option for that leg. (Tickets on the Railjet service can cost up to 36,00 EUR per person.)

 

[khib70]

One thing to note is München Hauptbahnhof is huge - much larger than any UK station with a total of 40 platforms (including the S-Bahn and U-Bahn platforms.)

Just noticed what was the DB Regio between Munich and Salzburg has been replaced by a Meridian service but it looks like the Bayern ticket 27,00 EUR for 2 people is still valid on it, if you want to use a cheaper slower option for that leg. (Tickets on the Railjet service can cost up to 36,00 EUR per person.)

It certainly is, and I managed to miss an ALEX service to Regensburg because some of the regional platforms are a fair hike from the main concourse.

It has probably the best in-station catering of any station I've been to (possibly a topic for another trivia thread) with an huge range of excellent fast food stalls covering about every world cuisine.

Salzburg station was a building site when I was there two years ago, so it's probably quite nice now, and is a pleasant 20 minute or so walk from the Old Town.

 

[crispy1978]

One thing to note is München Hauptbahnhof is huge - much larger than any UK station with a total of 40 platforms (including the S-Bahn and U-Bahn platforms.)

Just noticed what was the DB Regio between Munich and Salzburg has been replaced by a Meridian service but it looks like the Bayern ticket 27,00 EUR for 2 people is still valid on it, if you want to use a cheaper slower option for that leg. (Tickets on the Railjet service can cost up to 36,00 EUR per person.)

Wowzers - 40 platforms! That's like Kings Cross, Edinburgh and Manchester added together!!!!

 

[gordonthemoron]

bear in mind that of the 40 or so platforms, 6 are for u-bahn and 2/4 are for S-bahn (there are two tracks but platforms on either side of the track)

 

[northwichcat]

It certainly is, and I managed to miss an ALEX service to Regensburg because some of the regional platforms are a fair hike from the main concourse.

On bahn.de they split the main level in to 3:

München Hbf Gl.5-10
München Hbf
München Hbf Gl.27-36

So if it says München Hbf Gl.5-10 or München Hbf Gl.27-36 you need to allow extra time to reach the platform from the main concourse.

 

[30907]

Salzburg station was a building site when I was there two years ago, so it's probably quite nice now, and is a pleasant 20 minute or so walk from the Old Town.

It still was, 12 months ago, which is when my wife and I stopped off there (the trip was Slovenia-UK); Wiki says it's due for completion this year.

In terms of the trip: Salzburg counts as a German station so a DB Europe Special France can be booked right through. You may find it cheaper or more convenient, though, to travel via Brussels-Cologne and the sleeper from there. You have to split the ticket in Cologne, as the system doesn't cope with reserving the sleeper and Eurostar on one booking! (The Cologne-London bit may well now be cheaper off the Eurostar or Thalys website rather than DB)

We didn't do either, as we (I) wanted to enjoy the double deck sleeper on the Munich-Hamburg night train as far as Bremen, then Bremen-Cologne-Brussels-London-Lancs - the ticket split point was IIRC Muenster (in the end we decided to go through to Hamburg and fly to Manchester, but that's another story!).

However, the principles are the same:
(1) unless it's ridiculously more expensive, travel first class on the sleeper - apart from the ensuite stuff, you get access to the super lounges at Salzburg (snacks and drink all day, alcohol from 6pm...), Munich and Koeln.

(2) if using the Cologne route, check whether a through ticket from somewhere in Austria, or even Slovenia, works out cheaper (you don't have to use it, and you can give yourselves a second lounge visit!) - it's one of the delights of DB ticketing.

BTW there was a thread here recently on the daytime connections Salzburg-London: If you've not "done" the Rhine Valley, I would consider doing one way by daytime trains, but break the journey en route. PM me for a suggestion near Koblenz.

 

[Gordon]

.

If you are going to make an international train journey, I recommend not using an overnight train. Use day trains and take advantage of the chance to see the country you pass through.

As such there is a through Paris - Munchen TGV.

Alternatively, as you live in Scarborough, why not travel by North Sea Ferries to Rotterdam or Zeebrugge and start from there


as regards Munchen Hauptbahnhof, it should be remembered that the station is really three in one. The two peripheral (wing) stations used to be known as Starnberger Bahnhof and Holzkirchner Bahnhof. They are really separate stations. In Britain, we could elect to call St Pancras and Kings Cross the same station but we don't. However, many stations in Europe have distinct parts or are two separate stations marketed as one. and where care is needed when accessing further flung platforms. Examples include Paris Gare de Lyon (Platforms 5 - 23) , London Kings Cross (platforms 9-11), Paris Montparnasse (Vaugirard)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:München_Hauptbahnhof_Lageplan.png


ps - has your wife ever consulted IMDB and seen the 100s of goofs and factual errors in the Sound of Music?..

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[crispy1978]

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Alternatively, as you live in Scarborough, why not travel by North Sea Ferries to Rotterdam or Zeebrugge and start from there
.

I've done that plenty of times. Fancied something different and I'm not great on water!

 

[generalvegitable]

I did the return trip from salzburg to london last summer, by eurocity to Stuttgart (via munich), TGV to Paris Est and then eurostar. it worked out cheaper for us than ICE, but it did take a bit longer. Stuttgart HBF is a LOT smaller than Munich HBF so I'd actually recommend changing there instead of at Munich if you can get a connection with a through train. just to give an idea of timings I left Salzburg at about 7:30AM (european time) and got home at about 9:00PM (UK time), so if money is no object, it might be worth breaking your journey somewhere along the way, just to lessen the strain.

not strictly relevant, but while you'e there it might be a good idea to look up Salzburger Lokalbahn's "nostalgie services" they're operated by the main local public transport authority (think PTE but a bit bigger), and are generally mixed in with the normal timetables, so for example you could just be waiting for a trolleybus into the old town and a heritage bus turns up. the heritage schedules I believe are published somewhere. I don't think there was a supplement either, but I'm not 100% sure, since when I was doing the Pinzgau Railway the steamer (on which I had the pleasure of a cab ride btw) stopped at various local halts along the way to pick up and drop off (sometimes to the disgust of the waiting passengers )

 

[tony_mac]

I can't see any of the cheap 'savings' fares on DB at the moment. There used to be €19/€29/€39 fares for journeys like Cologne to Munich - I can't see anything below about €65 now, even into August. Is this just a summer thing, or more permanent?

It's probably a bit much for a relatively short journey (just from Munich), but I think Railjet's business class is rather nice.

 

[Gordon]

Stuttgart HBF is a LOT smaller than Munich HBF so I'd actually recommend changing there ... so if money is no object, it might be worth breaking your journey somewhere along the way,)

I'm not sure there is a connection between money being no object and a stopover. In fact I often do that and get cheap advance fares for several separate legs.

Another place to stop along the Salzburg - Munchen - Paris route would be Strasbourg. There are lots of hotels of all grades across the Place de la Gare opposite the main station.

https://goo.gl/maps/TwFs1

THere are some excellent restaurants near the Cathedral, and lovely canals, all in a comparitively comact city centre area and a short walk or tram ride from the station.

Strasbourg has a comprehensive 2nd generation tram network, all built new since 1994. Trams built in Derby and Yorkshire (!) still serve the main railway station.



.

 

[nw1]

I can't see any of the cheap 'savings' fares on DB at the moment. There used to be €19/€29/€39 fares for journeys like Cologne to Munich - I can't see anything below about €65 now, even into August. Is this just a summer thing, or more permanent?

Not sure but I noticed the same thing when booking London-Munich and return in July recently. I did actually get an €59 ticket out all the way from London (and €109 back) so still a good price overall, but the option of splitting at Brussels or Cologne, which often gives cheaper options, revealed none. There was only one Cologne to Munich, even, as little as €29, most were >€60. Compared to 2011 and 2012, the last occasions I headed for Germany, cheap ticket options seem to have gone right down. And this is looking for tickets literally as soon as they become available. In 2012 I went a little earlier (start of July) but the 2011 dates were similar to this year.

Shame there were no cheap Brussels/Munich tickets as I am eligible for a free Eurostar return trip after my last journey was 3 hours late last summer!

Maybe something to do with the recession "ending" (well, for some) and more demand for train travel?

 

[crispy1978]

Some helpful ideas, thank you.

Must admit with the fantastic scenery, I'd rather take advantage of it during the day rather than sleeper trains - but I'd love to try a sleeper train at some point!

 

[30907]

The scenery is mostly pleasant rather than fantastic IMO (Rhine Valley or the Cologne-Frankfurt HSL apart).

For a real sleeper experience I'd go for deluxe on the double decker Hannover-Munich or vv (northbound it's worth going through to Bremen unless you are early risers), but you may be lucky to get a Saver fare on those in high season (I've just done a couple of test bookings), but from all reports the "ordinary" deluxe on the Paris or Cologne trains are as good in terms of service etc.

 

[sarahj]

Beware of the sound of music tours. Nice, but has issues. The house is a private residence, so you can only see it from the other side of the river. You also get taken to a glass house where they say, leisel and rolf sang 16 going on 17. But its not, that bit was done in a studio. And you deff cannot dance round it as its full of stalls selling tat. But Salzburg is a nice place to go anyway and im sure your wife will enjoy it.

Anyway, all together now.....high on a hill was a lonely goat....

 

[crispy1978]

Beware of the sound of music tours. Nice, but has issues. The house is a private residence, so you can only see it from the other side of the river. You also get taken to a glass house where they say, leisel and rolf sang 16 going on 17. But its not, that bit was done in a studio. And you deff cannot dance round it as its full of stalls selling tat. But Salzburg is a nice place to go anyway and im sure your wife will enjoy it.

Anyway, all together now.....high on a hill was a lonely goat....

Yeah, I've heard the same through various sources - thanks for the advice.

My Mum and Dad just been to Lake Como, and my wife has seen the photos of there, so now she's thinking about there as well!! Decisions, decisions!!

 

[Gordon]

Yeah, I've heard the same through various sources - thanks for the advice.

My Mum and Dad just been to Lake Como, and my wife has seen the photos of there, so now she's thinking about there as well!! Decisions, decisions!!

Great idea! Would give you an excuse to escape to nearby Switzerland on day trips (Lugano, Locarno etc all accesible) loads of activity at Bellinzona (big SBB works) and Chiasso (huge yard) while she soaks up the sun! Also not far away is Swiss Miniature at Melide. Also Milan still has lots of 1920s designed American Peter Witt trams in daily service.

 

[30907]

If you can arrange to stay in Lombardy, I've picked up from Today's Railways that there's an excellent day pass (valid on Lake Iseo boats and much else... just done an overnight there and it's lovely).

http://www.trenord.it/en/tickets/ticket-day-passes.aspx