Portishead reopening - speculative / suggestions thread.

[Annetts key]

I wonder if you could increase the train frequency in the peak by having a service that ran from Pill to Bristol, using the other (up) platform currently earmarked for the freight line into the docks? I guess bringing that platform into use would be expensive, although it has level access. I’m considering that trains might leave Portishead in the morning full to capacity, and whether a train starting from Pill would mean people from there could actually get on a service. Population is about 5000 in Pill and adjoining villages so could probably fill a two-car unit in the peak.

I guess it could work even without the other platform if signalling was set up for it, have the Pill service follow the Portishead one (possibly as an ECS inbound) and just reverse at Pill.

Aside from the costs to reinstate the platform, either of your suggestions would require the signalling system to include the appropriate facilities for this. That involves greater cost. These extra signalling costs would likely not be particularly high costs compared to the whole scheme, but maybe would be enough that it's well beyond the available money. Remember, this is already a bare minimum scheme.

 

[John R]

Surely it would cheaper to revert to the original plan to have platform lengths of 5 cars if more capacity was needed? And would save on the operational costs of an additional crew.

 

[zwk500]

I wonder if you could increase the train frequency in the peak by having a service that ran from Pill to Bristol, using the other (up) platform currently earmarked for the freight line into the docks? I guess bringing that platform into use would be expensive, although it has level access. I’m considering that trains might leave Portishead in the morning full to capacity, and whether a train starting from Pill would mean people from there could actually get on a service. Population is about 5000 in Pill and adjoining villages so could probably fill a two-car unit in the peak.

I guess it could work even without the other platform if signalling was set up for it, have the Pill service follow the Portishead one (possibly as an ECS inbound) and just reverse at Pill.

AIUI the line can support a 45-minute frequency as it's designed. So you could just run a peak timetable that drops to hourly after the rush.

 

[overthere 2]

There is not the space for 2x 200m bay platforms at Ashton Gate.

Looking on Google maps it does look "tight" but there are things that could be done also i am assuming that there are rules and regulations about platform widths etc but as these platforms would be terminus with trains moving slowly rather than through platforms with trains potentially at high speed then maybe there could be some room for compromise?

Extending these trains would be really silly as they take a long time to board or alight from. Running 5-car Turbos shuttling back and forth would handle the crowds far better. Not to mention that plenty of the GWRs that terminate at Bristol don't spend enough time laying over in the platform to shuttle off to Ashton Gate and back.

The reason they take a long time to board and alight is because they are being used by "normal" passengers and what I mean by "normal" is babys in prams, small children trying to climb up and down the steps right up to the elderly and disabled also people are sometimes laden down with luggage, bikes etc or spend ages blocking the aisles while they are sorting themselves out either to sit down or preparing to leave the train.

With this idea you would have a crowd of at least reasonably fit people with no luggage whos only aim is to get off as quick as possible when the train terminates and get on again before it leaves.

On travel reports and numerous threads on here it is regularly mentioned about services being cancelled because of lack of rolling stock or staff so I cant see GWR going to the hassle of organising a large group of units/staff just to shuttle up and down for an hour or two also if the match goes into extra time then you are paying for units and staff to sit about doing nothing and possibly causing complications on the main line/Temple Meads if they cant all be stabled on the branch.

The logic behind my idea is your are using stock that is sitting around doing nothing and as for the GWR stock that does not hang around long enough then while I dont know the timings of trains between Bristol and London lets say a train from London is due to arrive at ten minutes to the hour and head back to London on the hour you could simply schedule it to go back on the next hour then you have an hour and ten minutes to send it to Ashton Gate

The police would hate it because there's nowhere to hold the crowds at Ashton Gate after the game, and they'd particularly hate the idea of sending away fans into a sea of home fans at a small local station when they're *expecting* trouble. At Temple Meads they can meet fans off the train and guide them into a waiting bus direct to the ground.

The terminus platforms need not necessarily be attached to the main platforms or if they were you could have gates also you could build a pedestrian footbridge form the "away" end at Ashton Gate with barriers at the stadium end but not the flimsy ones you have at railway stations, soild ones and they could only be used by people with pre booked tickets that way you can control the numbers of people using the station and keep the fans apart also if things do kick off then you have the names and addresses of the fans through their credit/debit card.

 

[JKF]

I’d always thought they could do half-hourly alternating between Temple Meads & Wapping Wharf (which was once proposed to have a station) but think they’ve built on the WW site now plus the busway at Ashton on the formation, so that ship has sailed.

I recall there was consideration given to running two units up to Portishead in the morning then split and stagger their departures to give a higher frequency in the peak, but that would be a bit complicated and require two crews, plus will the station be big enough to take two units?

I wonder when we’ll see the first signs of work? I noted that they seemed particularly thorough with the vegetation and tree clearance work earlier in the year so suspect that was done with an eye on the forthcoming project. Plus the compensatory tree planting has been there for a couple of years and there’s been ongoing slope stabilisation works. Supposed to be starting next year but I’d have thought we’d maybe see the sign of compounds being established ahead of that, together with necessary planning consents.

There’s been no steel trains down the branch since the 2nd September, they seem to come in phases related to when ships come into the docks. I wonder if they’ll be able to fit that around construction works, with ships coordinated with line closures?

 

[Annetts key]

I recall there was consideration given to running two units up to Portishead in the morning then split and stagger their departures to give a higher frequency in the peak, but that would be a bit complicated and require two crews, plus will the station be big enough to take two units?

Unlikely to be practical with the intended signalling system. See post #123 earlier.

 

[JKF]

Unlikely to be practical with the intended signalling system. See post #123 earlier.

Yes, that won’t work with one train in section. It was suggested by someone official a while back as a way of increasing frequency but they haven’t designed the signalling for this.

I’d consider having a second morning train starting at Pill so people there can get a seat, the village and adjoining villages have a population of about 5000 so will be a fair demand for a peak service. Split a train there in the morning with one portion going on to Portishead and the rear coaches going back down to Bristol. Again, that would need two crews but they wouldn’t be waiting around, and rear portion could be out of use until Pill on the inbound service then draw forward onto the platform once the other unit had gone ahead.

 

[zwk500]

Yes, that won’t work with one train in section. It was suggested by someone official a while back as a way of increasing frequency but they haven’t designed the signalling for this.

I’d consider having a second morning train starting at Pill so people there can get a seat, the village and adjoining villages have a population of about 5000 so will be a fair demand for a peak service. Split a train there in the morning with one portion going on to Portishead and the rear coaches going back down to Bristol. Again, that would need two crews but they wouldn’t be waiting around, and rear portion could be out of use until Pill on the inbound service then draw forward onto the platform once the other unit had gone ahead.

Again, looking at the signalling this is unlikely to be practical. And having the extra crew would not be economic unless the duty could be worked in to marginal time. The proposed ionfrastructure can support a c.40-minute service interval, and therefore I expect that if any peak extras were needed (which I don't think is as certain as some posters believe), the simplest solution would be to compress the service interval slightly from 60 to 45/40 mins, running contra peak services express or out of service to Portishead if needed to get enough gaps in the timetable.

Getting Paths between Temple Meads and Parson Street to rotate 15/20 mins around the peak hours may be a problem though.

Spoiler: Showing the Working

The publicity is promising journey times of c.25 minutes from Portishead to Bristol Temple Meads, and the known journey time from arriving at Parson Street to Temple Meads is 7.5 minutes (stopping cl.158). So you have a journey time of c.17.5 minutes from end to end. Assuming a 4 minute turnround at Portishead (TPR standard value) and 1 minute reoccupation at Parson Street (for departure after conflicting arrival), a train travelling down the branch and back up would need 1+17.5+4+17.5=40 minutes to return to Parson Street.

Allowing for slight variations in time available and rolling stock, a 45-minute service is very possible to be delivered. A 40-minute one may require the down train to wait in the loop at Ashton Jn for the other train to clear the line.