Poor condition of Bakerloo line stock

[yorksrob]

I've worked in central Leeds for many years, and whilst I've never felt in danger, it does seem a bit more unruly since lockdown. I wonder if it's a thing about urban area in general.

As for London, I'm not there often, however i've not noticed much difference around Kings Cross, Waterloo etc.

 

[BRX]

I've lived in London for about 25 years now and can't say that the streets feel particularly more or less "safe" now than in the past. The idea that people are scared to have their mobile phones on show in public is nonsense, in my opinion.

What I have noticed in the last 5-ish years or so is a deterioration in public transport. The Bakerloo trains are the most visible manifestation but it's noticeable on other underground lines too. Various bus services have been cut back and TfL's provision of travel information is not as reliable as it used to be. On the other hand we've seen the opening of the Elizabeth Line which is great and makes a big difference, but that's a bit of an exception because it was funded by investment committed some time ago.

 

[Geogregor]

The idea that London is dying and declining seems like scaremongering clap trap from people who don't live here.

It is the same world over. Folks are always "frightened", or at least apprehensive, of the "big smoke". Always been that way, always will be, even if all the tube trains were new and spotless.

Having said that Bakerloo line really looks bad, much worse then any other form of transport in London, including buses going through some "least desirable" areas.

I do share certain suspicion that TfL is trying to proof the point they need replacement. Which of course they do, but in British stupidly centralized system you have to go with the begging bowl to the treasury officials. The chance is some of them at least occasionally might use the line...

 

[sh24]

I'm a 30 year London resident, and a regular visitor before that. I remember steaming gangs in the late 80's and early 90's...so there has always been a bit of added edge here but that hasn't changed in a long long time.

Frankly 15 years of austerity and Covid have left most of the country looking a bit tired.

 

[scarby]

I took a short ride on the Bakerloo yesterday and I can only say that if you want a British real-world retro transport experience this is the place to be. The utterly worn-out graffitied interior, rattling train and rumbling doors have to be experienced, it is like a trip back to the 1980s.

Not a good look for the travelling public but from an enthusiast's point of view I recommend that you do this while you can.

 

[Bikeman78]

Nonsense. I won’t disagree that the graffiti problem is becoming more significant (although looking at number of contemporary sources now, I would challenge the “it wasn’t as bad in the 80s” statement), but London is as multicultural and vibrant as it has always been. It is far from a city in decline.

Disagree. That train, or trains, should not be in service in that condition. Have they literally given up any sort of cleaning? That's almost as bad as Belgium.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Mar 2025 ==

David Gunn of the NYCTA managed the almost impossible task of clearing graffiti vandalism off the system by 1988 - yes it cost money , but it was done by focused management and processes.

The better ambience caused ridership to rise within a short period. (that and a concentrated attack on crime of all sorts) - even London sent people across to see how it was done.

I think they need to schedule another visit!

 

[Ashley Hill]

I took a short ride on the Bakerloo yesterday and I can only say that if you want a British real-world retro transport experience this is the place to be. The utterly worn-out graffitied interior, rattling train and rumbling doors have to be experienced, it is like a trip back to the 1980s.

Not a good look for the travelling public but from an enthusiast's point of view I recommend that you do this while you can.

Indeed,I travelled on it a couple of weeks ago and felt very nostalgic.

 

[sad1e]

I think I mentioned before in this thread, Engineering pushed for this a while back to free up units for RVAR work, including a rolling stock plan for using either D78 units displaced or leasing 319s from Porterbrook to run Harrow to Queens Park shuttles and remove everything north of Queens Park except the Stonebridge Terminators, would have freed up 5 units back then.

The TfL sponsors were not happy with the idea.

(Still, these were the same sponsors that had some 'ideas' about resurrecting a special trailer to help with RVAR conversion, but as soon as an actual plan on how to do it by creating a new 3 car unit came about, "Not my idea" syndrome kicked in and they were no longer interested).

Having extra stock run north of queens park would be very useful considering the sparse bakerloo line service, often over a 10 minute wait in some places .

Is an idea like this of terminating the 72 Stock at queen's park and running other stock north of that still being considered. The 72 Stock aren't exactly getting any younger or more reliable.

 

[Nym]

Having extra stock run north of queens park would be very useful considering the sparse bakerloo line service, often over a 10 minute wait in some places .

Is an idea like this of terminating the 72 Stock at queen's park and running other stock north of that still being considered. The 72 Stock aren't exactly getting any younger or more reliable.

No idea, the Bakerloo Line is "No longer within my scope of work" due to a termination of subscription some time ago.

 

[bramling]

It is the same world over. Folks are always "frightened", or at least apprehensive, of the "big smoke". Always been that way, always will be, even if all the tube trains were new and spotless.

Having said that Bakerloo line really looks bad, much worse then any other form of transport in London, including buses going through some "least desirable" areas.

I do share certain suspicion that TfL is trying to proof the point they need replacement. Which of course they do, but in British stupidly centralized system you have to go with the begging bowl to the treasury officials. The chance is some of them at least occasionally might use the line...

The thing is that having graffiti scrawled everywhere says nothing about needing replacement, and everything about TFL’s management attitudes. To be honest, if I were writing a cheque for multiple millions of pounds for a new fleet, I’d be thinking that if this is how TFL are going to treat their assets then maybe the money should go somewhere else more deserving.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Mar 2025 ==

I've lived in London for about 25 years now and can't say that the streets feel particularly more or less "safe" now than in the past. The idea that people are scared to have their mobile phones on show in public is nonsense, in my opinion.

Yet TFL themselves feel the need to have posters and announcements regarding “gadget grabbers” at many of their stations, so clearly someone feels it’s an issue.

One notes that the Mayor of London seems less keen to attach his name to these posters, in stark contrast to those promoting discount bus fares. Head firmly in the sand.

 

[Thirteen]

The thing is that having graffiti scrawled everywhere says nothing about needing replacement, and everything about TFL’s management attitudes. To be honest, if I were writing a cheque for multiple millions of pounds for a new fleet, I’d be thinking that if this is how TFL are going to treat their assets then maybe the money should go somewhere else more deserving.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Mar 2025 ==



Yet TFL themselves feel the need to have posters and announcements regarding “gadget grabbers” at many of their stations, so clearly someone feels it’s an issue.

One notes that the Mayor of London seems less keen to attach his name to these posters, in stark contrast to those promoting discount bus fares. Head firmly in the sand.

TBH it's sensible to warn people of pickpockets and be aware of their surroundings and it's hyperbolic that the Government won't fund new trains just because the current ones are in disrepair. You can't grow the economy by keeping assets that are pass their life expirary.

Just because you dislike Sadiq Khan doesn't mean he's doing a bad job.

 

[Moderating team]

I think we are all now well aware about the state of the Bakerloo Line Stock