POLL: What lines do you think should be next for electrification?

[Mikey C]

I would say the Chiltern Main Line option covers all of these and the Snow Hill - Worcester section which is pretty much a natural extension of the Chiltern anyway.

Agreed BUT it's entirely possible that the electrification won't be done as a big bang "do the whole route" exercise, bur rather doing the key local routes at both ends, i.e. the lines into Marylebone, and the lines through Snow Hill

 

[option]

I would say the Chiltern Main Line option covers all of these and the Snow Hill - Worcester section which is pretty much a natural extension of the Chiltern anyway.

Interesting that you say that, as i've been thinking about Chiltern either being cut back to Stourbridge or extended to Worcester
(electric running + removal of some stops would allow either a service extension or frequency increase)

With electric to Worcester, then Droitwich-Bromsgrove is obvious infill, which could see XC running via Worcester instead of Worcestershire Parkway...

 

[Struner]

Highland Main Line. Should be doubled as well.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It was tied in with a plan to replace the forty year old HSTs. Thus electrics to Swansea and Bristol, with bi modes to Taunton, Exeter and beyond. NSE didn't attempt to get wires up in the early 1990s to replace first generation DMUs and hauled trains. Had they done so, the project would likely to have been wires to Oxford and Newbury.

As I understand Great Western electrification would of happened under BR, probably as a 2000s pet project. Crossrail would have taken the wires out to Reading, and Intercity after Intercity 250 saw London to Swansea/Bristol as next on the list. The IC 250s were essentially seen as 125 and 225 replacements.

Alas, if BR had survived things could have been much better for electrification. But we have to settle with the history we’ve been dealt with. I think the best bet would be to aspire to the electrification of Plymouth to Edinburgh, London to Swansea and Transpennine. Or maybe have a freight based electrification project that would as a consequence lead to many miles of passenger electrification.

 

[cactustwirly]

It won't. Wires aren't going to Bristol via either route.

Swindon (& London Paddington) - Bristol Parkway is already wired, with Bristol Parkway - Cardiff progressing well

 

[ainsworth74]

Swindon (& London Paddington) - Bristol Parkway is already wired, with Bristol Parkway - Cardiff progressing well

Yes I'm well aware of that I was posting in response to someone not being aware that wires aren't getting to Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[PTR 444]

I wonder if it would be better to prioritise electrification of local services around large cities, such as Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds, before focusing on intercity corridors. This approach would serve a larger proportion of services and enable diesel rolling stock to be eradicated from those cities. Intercity services could then all use bi-modes until it becomes profitable to fill the gaps between cities.

 

[VT 390]

Interesting that you say that, as i've been thinking about Chiltern either being cut back to Stourbridge or extended to Worcester
(electric running + removal of some stops would allow either a service extension or frequency increase)

With electric to Worcester, then Droitwich-Bromsgrove is obvious infill, which could see XC running via Worcester instead of Worcestershire Parkway...

If you were to electrify Worcester to Bromsgrove then I think the line to Hereford should also be electrified so that Birmingham to Hereford can be operated by EMU's. If the Malvern and Ledbury tunnels were a problem then just as far as Malvern with bi-modes to Hereford.

 

[option]

I wonder if it would be better to prioritise electrification of local services around large cities, such as Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds, before focusing on intercity corridors. This approach would serve a larger proportion of services and enable diesel rolling stock to be eradicated from those cities. Intercity services could then all use bi-modes until it becomes profitable to fill the gaps between cities.

That's the best way to 'de-risk' electrification, in terms of less likely to get cut back in scope, as there would in many cases be very obvious end points, eg the end of the line or where the most intensive services end.

It's the risk I see with a Chiltern electrification, there are so many places where it could be cut back to, eg only do the Aylesbury line, end at High Wycombe, end at Oxford.
Whereas a Snow Hill electrification project would end at Leamington & Stourbridge/Kidderminster, & there's nowhere to cut it back to.

 

[deltic08]

I have just voted. In 1st place was MML, 2nd Derby-Birmingham, 3rd Birmingham-Bristol. No coincidence this all links in together and electrifies two major axes, one being Edinburgh-York-Bristol. Bring it on Mr Shapps.

 

[xotGD]

I selected "Other" because there wasn't an option of "None".

There are higher priorities than extending electrification. Increased line speed, increased capacity, longer trains, longer platforms.

IF you can't get on your train because it is rammed, whether or not it has a pantograph is rather immaterial.

 

[ainsworth74]

IF you can't get on your train because it is rammed, whether or not it has a pantograph is rather immaterial.

Though of course the two can and do go together. The GWML out of Paddington on the commuter services to Reading used to be restricted to, at most, a six-car Turbo but now you have a minimum four-car Electrostar and some eight-car. Those are soon to be replaced with Crossrail's nine-car 345s! Or going a bit further back electric services on the Yorkshire Triangle (Leeds - Ilkley, Bradford and Skipton) would have been two car Pacers or Sprinters then three-car 333s and rapidly four-car 333s.

Electrification goes hand in hand with longer trains and more capacity!

 

[Mikey C]

Though of course the two can and do go together. The GWML out of Paddington on the commuter services to Reading used to be restricted to, at most, a six-car Turbo but now you have a minimum four-car Electrostar and some eight-car. Those are soon to be replaced with Crossrail's nine-car 345s! Or going a bit further back electric services on the Yorkshire Triangle (Leeds - Ilkley, Bradford and Skipton) would have been two car Pacers or Sprinters then three-car 333s and rapidly four-car 333s.

Electrification goes hand in hand with longer trains and more capacity!

We also have a surplus of EMUs!

By contrast we have a shortage of DMUs and unless battery or hydrogen use takes off, buying a large fleet of additional DMUs would seem quite retrograde with the move to reduce diesel and indeed fossil fuel use

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Amersham to Aylesbury would be better off stuck onto the Met Line and 4th railed. The rest could probably be OHLEd.

London Underground have made it clear they have no intention of going back to Aylesbury.

 

[Aictos]

With regards to the question asked; what lines do you think should be next for electrification, my answers are below:

Midland Main Line

This should have been completed or nearing completion at the same time as the GWML scheme with Kettering to Sheffield via Langley Mill and Derby/Nottingham with a addon scheme towards the completion of said scheme to take the wires to Doncaster/Wakefield Westgate as well as Bedford to Bletchley.

Liverpool - Hull

This should be done together with electrification of the TransPennine routes HOWEVER Doncaster/York to Hull should be done first.

GWML west of Cardiff

This is already being done as far as Swansea and should include the Cardiff Valleys with the latter being used as a more metro type of operation.

Bristol - Devon/Cornwall and Newbury - Devon/Cornwall

If this is to be considered then both lines ought to be done around the same time but as far as Exeter St Davids with the second part of the scheme if funding is still available to take the wires to Plymouth and Paignton only.

Chiltern Main Line

If done then it should start from the West Midlands with the Snow Hill lines done first then continued to Oxford via Banbury with a addon scheme to take the wires from Leamington Spa to Nuneaton via Coventry.

As to London Marylebone to Banbury/Oxford/Aylesbury; it should be done with OHL between Harrow on the Hill Platforms 1/2 to London Marylebone/Amersham Platforms 1/3 to Aylesbury Vale Parkway/Princes Risborough to Aylesbury/Oxford with the Harrow on the Hill Platforms 1/2 to Amersham section being kept as LUL 4th rail.

Yes this means having dual voltage trains but it can't be that difficult to have a metro fleet capable of both 4th rail and OHL operation as well as a outer surburban/IC fleet capable of OHL.

Bristol - Birmingham/Birmingham - Derby

This ought to be done as one scheme however I believe that it should be shortened to Bristol Parkway to Bromsgrove and Birmingham New Street to Derby with Derby to Nottingham already been done as part of the MML electrification scheme.

Oxford - Coventry/Nuneaton

This would be completed under the Chiltern Electrification scheme.

Oxford - Bedford (Varsity Line)

This would be completed under the Midland Mainline Electrification scheme.

WofE Main Line/Wessex Main Line

Not yet but should be considered.

North Downs Line

This should be done together with the Oxted to Uckfield line however as much as there is a safety case against it, I think it should be done as 3rd rail.

Peterborough - Ely - Norwich/Ipswich/Birmingham - Leicester - Peterborough

Once this is competed, it will mean that Cross Country would not be using 2 car DMUs on a inter regional route with 3tph of 4 car EMUs on the Birmingham to Leicester route with 2tph to Stansted Airport.

Nottingham - Newark - Lincoln

This should only go ahead when the solution to replace the flat crossing at Newark has been resolved, in the meantime OHL should be extended from Newark Northgate to Lincoln.

Transpennine Lines

As part of electrifying the Transpennine routes, the following line should all be done one by one;
Calder Valley Line/Huddersfield Line/Ribble Valley Line/Liverpool to Manchester Lines.

Hope Valley Line

This should be done as a infill scheme once the MML is finished.

Crewe - Holyhead

No, much like Plymouth to Penzance I can't see a strong enough business case.

Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen

No until the Forth Bridge is resolved.