Please help - "No valid ticket" reply letter

[JoeBristol]

Hi, Firstly, I've made a pretty stupid, pointless mistake and I've been feeling guilty ever since.

So, a couple of weeks ago I traveled from station A (Trowbridge) to station C (Cardiff), passing through station B (Bristol). I booked my return journey online for the following day but, because it was short notice and Trowbridge has no ticket machine, so nowhere for me to collect my ticket, I didn't book my outbound journey.

On my day of travel, the ticket office in Trowbridge was closed so I didn't buy a ticket before getting on the train. This is fairly common and I normally just buy the ticket on the train or at the following station. However, there was no ticket inspector on the train (although to be honest I didn't check the whole train as it was only 2 or 3 carriages long).

When I arrived in Cardiff I went to the ticket desk before the barriers to buy my ticket but stated I'd come from Bristol instead of Trowbridge. Bristol has barriers so the ticket officer knew I couldn't have come from there so he questioned me. I realised this was stupid (especially just to save a couple of pounds) so when asked where I'd really come from I corrected myself to say Trowbridge. I then apologised and offered to buy a ticket from Trowbridge but unsurprisingly got reported. The conversation was a bit longer than this but this is the gist of it. I also returned the following day to apologise again but the man I spoke to wasn't there.

I've now received a letter saying there is "sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution". This is really concerning as this is my first offence for anything and completely unlike me and I need to avoid a criminal record at all costs because I've just graduated uni so I'm looking for jobs.

While I realise I was an absolute moron, does anyone have any advice for what to say in a reply letter? I'm desperately looking to avoid going to court and I'll gladly pay a fine/administration costs. Also, I know it's probably hard to say at the moment but what sort of outcome is standard in a situation like this?

I'd be really grateful for any help,
Thanks

 

[najaB]

I've now received a letter saying there is "sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution". This is really concerning as this is my first offence for anything and completely unlike me and I need to avoid a criminal record at all costs because I've just graduated uni so I'm looking for jobs.

Does the letter state what offence you are potentially being prosecuted for? Specifically, does it mention the Railway Byelaws or the Regulation of Railways Act?

 

[JoeBristol]

I'm not sure if it says specifically. It says "The report of this incident indicates that sufficient evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. This file is presently with our prosecutions team who are considering whether to issue a summons for inclusion in a forthcoming magistrates court list. These considerations may include whether and charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005) or, The regulation of railways act 1889."

 

[tony6499]

Does it ask for your explanation ?

 

[najaB]

"These considerations may include whether and charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005) or, The regulation of railways act 1889."

Right, so they are potentially prosecuting under either. The reason I ask is because prosecution under the Railway Byelaws would have less impact on your future than one under the Regulation of Railways Act.

At this point, if they have given you an opportunity to make any statement or submission then I would suggest that you do so. Don't try to excuse what you did e.g. "I was really tired / Not feeling well / Stressed / Whatever" as they've heard it all before and it doesn't make any difference.

From your post here you seem to accept that what you did was wrong, so simply acknowledge what you did, that you understand it was wrong, that you are very sorry and would like to take the opportunity to save everyone time and effort by paying any outstanding fare amount and to recompense them for any costs they have incurred up to this point, rather than taking the issue before the courts.

I have no doubt that more experienced members of the forum will be able to give much more specific advice.

 

[JoeBristol]

Sorry, I'm not sure which bits of the letter are important so I've just copied the whole letter

"We are agents for the rail company and are in receipt of a report, which advises that on 05/07/2014 a person giving your name and details was spoken to by railway revenue protection staff in connection with a journey between Trowbridge and Cardiff Central for which you showed no valid ticket.

"The purpose of this letter is to advise you of the proposed action and to provide the opportunity for any mitigation that you wish to be considered. This must be a signed statement and can be sent to the address shown above. We will also accept a fax, or if you have access to a scanner, we will accept a scanned copy of a signed letter through our email address shown below.

"The report of this incident indicates that sufficient evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. This file is presently with our prosecutions team who are considering whether to issue a summons for inclusion in a forthcoming magistrates court list. These considerations may include whether and charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005) or, The regulation of railways act 1889."

"In any successful prosecution we will ask the magistrates to award costs and compensation in favour of the rail company. This will be in addition to any fine that the Magistrates may seek to impose.

"If I do not receive any written representation from you within 21 days of the date of this letter, a Summons to a Magistrates Court hearing may be issued without further reference to you"

 

[JoeBristol]

Thanks najaB. So the best option is to admit fault and apologise and hope that they're feeling kind?

 

[najaB]

As to outcomes, I see three possibilities:

1. The TOC decides to take no further action.
2. They accept your submission, and agree to an out of court settlement of between tens and hundreds of pounds.
3. They don't accept your submission and take you to court. If it's a Byelaws prosecution then you will almost certainly be found guilty and have to pay a fine set by the court (you would not get a criminal record). If they go for the RoRA prosecution, it is not 100% certain that you would be found guilty but, if you were, then you would receive a fine and/or custodial sentence and this will be recorded.

Again, other members of the forum may know of other possibilities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks najaB. So the best option is to admit fault and apologise and hope that they're feeling kind?

That is what I would do if I found myself in your situation. However, there are other members of the forum who have a lot more knowledge than myself so hold off doing anything until you've had a few more opinions. Perhaps draft your letter and give them a chance to review it when they 'arrive' so to speak.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Lying about the origin station is normally going to be viewed as an intentional deception, and therefore a Regulation of Railways Act Offence. It is something that passengers have been doing for as long as railways have been operating, and it is generally assumed by Inspectors that a triple coincidence is no coincidence: i.e. the fact that these three events never normally happen, but on this occasion, all 3 happened at the same time:
- the passenger makes a mistake in naming the station at which they boarded,
- the mistaken station name carries a lower fare than the correct station,
- the passenger is intercepted by an ad hoc revenue check.

Add to this that when passengers are found to fulfill those 3 coincidences, they usually add another one or two: I normally buy the corerct ticket but by coincidence I didn't on that day, and, I normally buy on-board, but by coincidence I didn't on that day, plus, of course, the error at the root of the whole sequence of events: that they were travelling without a valid ticket.

I will not draw any conclusions, but any Railway Investigator will be very used to reading reports of passengers who experience these coincidences after having been picked up during a revenue check. Consequently, it would be a challenging task for such a passenger to provide evidence that challenges the presumption of any Investigator unpersuaded by the claim of 'coincidence'.

Revenue checks are normally informed by a degree of evidence, this might be, for example, on-board head counts compared with an analysis of ticket sales, suggesting that there are significantly more passengers travelling between a pair of stations than there are tickets sold for that journey. When that sort of evidence is available, and compared to an exceptionally high number of passengers claiming 'coincidences', then the challenge for the passenger seeking to avoid prosecution is even harder.

Having said all that, I can assure you that some Railway Companies seem content to agree administrative settlements as an alternative means of disposing of the offence.

 

[Flamingo]

It's not impossible for a guard not to go through between Trobridge and Cardiff, especially on a busy evening peak train, but it's pretty damn unusual!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . , but it's pretty damn unusual!

That looks like another coincidence to me! And to anyone who is investigating JoeBristol's incident.

. . . I need to avoid a criminal record at all costs because I've just graduated uni so I'm looking for jobs.

Don't worry. There's a good chance that the Company will accept some sort of settlement with you as an alternative to a Prosecution, but if not, there are still plenty of job opportunities available to you where the entry conditions do not include honesty or an ability to analyse probabilities.

There will be bigger things to worry about in future life.

 

[JoeBristol]

Thanks a lot for the advice everyone, this is really helpful. And I'm feeling much calmer about it now too so thanks!

With regards to my reply letter, is there anything you think I definitely should or shouldn't include? Or certain phrases which I should use/avoid? This might be a stupid question, I just want to make sure I don't make things worse by accident.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

To include?
The truth.
Anything that you have learned following this incident.

To avoid?
Claiming that an improbable number of circumstances arose by coincidence on the day of travel.
Attempting to avoid taking responsibility for any of your actions or your statements.

 

[JoeBristol]

Hi again,
Just thought I should update this in case anyone's in a similar situation.

I sent off my reply letter and received a response from transport investigations ltd after about 3 weeks. I acknowledged that it was obviously all my fault, I'd made a mistake and now know some things which could have been done to avoid this, as well as apologising.

TIL's response doesn't seem to be great. I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look and just make sure I'm understanding this right. The letter says:

"'Travel on a train without a valid ticket' contratry to S.5.3 a Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

"Thank you for your letter in respect of this case, we have noted your comments in response to our letter and the report of failing to show a valid rail ticket.

"It is always the travellers' responsibility to pay the correct fare due and to obtain a valid ticket before boarding any train where pre-purchase facilities are available for the traveller to do so.

"The Rail Company report of this matter alleges that you had failed to pay the fare correct due and had boarded a train with the intention of traveling without having previously paid the correct amount. The company is entitled to consider whether a charge of 'intent to avoid a fare' could be alleged. These are matters that may be summonsed for hearing before a Magistrates Court.

"When asked to show a valid ticket, it is alleged that you failed to do so and that you had failed to pay the appropriate fare due in accordance with the rules in force. You did not tender a valid ticket and the company does consider that an attempt to avoid a liability may be alleged. This left the inspector no alternative but to report the incident.

"We have enclosed further information detailing the reporting procedure and rules concerning ticketing and travel. If you wish to make any further comment or representation please do so in writing as soon as possible. We are advised that the Rail company sees no reason why this matter should not proceed as previously advised.

"An application for the issue of a Summons may now be made. If you wish to comment further before this matter proceeds, please respond in writing within 14 days."


So as I understand it, the rail company want to proceed to prosecute me for the railways act rather than the bylaws which results in a criminal record?

Also, does anyone have any advice on a response I should make? Is it worth me writing back or phoning them? I was planning on going to do medicine or some other health care and I'm guessing a criminal record would ruin any chances I had for that.

Sorry this was such a long post. Any advice or input would be really appreciated, thanks.

 

[Clip]

You must write, never phone, and send recorded if at all possible.

Let them know once again that you are sorry for what you have done and would like to resolve this without it going to court.

Someone may be able to assist you with how to word your letter.

 

[JoeBristol]

Thanks Clip. Do you think it's worth highlighting how a criminal record would affect me? I guess they've probably heard it all before but it might be worth a try?

Also does anyone have any idea how long it could be before they respond again? I only ask cos I'm going to be out of the country for a month so might need to have someone check my post for me.

 

[LateThanNever]

Thanks Clip. Do you think it's worth highlighting how a criminal record would affect me? I guess they've probably heard it all before but it might be worth a try?

Also does anyone have any idea how long it could be before they respond again? I only ask cos I'm going to be out of the country for a month so might need to have someone check my post for me.

It could be better to hurry things along by indicating that you will be abroad from such and such a date (and not mentioning any return). If they think you might not be coming back they can look forward to summonsing you all they like without any result! So use this as an excuse to repeat your offer of financial amends to ensure a speedy settlement.

 

[455driver]

Thanks Clip. Do you think it's worth highlighting how a criminal record would affect me? I guess they've probably heard it all before but it might be worth a try?

They wont be interested.

Also does anyone have any idea how long it could be before they respond again? I only ask cos I'm going to be out of the country for a month so might need to have someone check my post for me.

You need to include this in your letter plus the normal 'I am sorry and wont do it again', 'is there anyway I can compensate you for the time you have expended on this case' etc etc.

 

[JoeBristol]

Thanks a lot for the advice everyone.

I've written a draft letter and I'll send it off tomorrow once I've checked it all over. Would anyone be willing to have a look at it for me please? I don't know how I'd send it over the forum but I'd be enormously grateful for any more help.

 

[reb0118]

...........I don't know how I'd send it over the forum[?].........

Scan, copy, & attach...........

............................ or better still just type it out again. (Esp. if your handwriting is hard to understand).

 

[JoeBristol]

Ok, I've typed it out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also is it better to hand write this or type?

"Thank you for your response, I understand that the responsibility lay with me to purchase the correct ticket. I am sorry and this will not happen again.

My intention was always to buy a ticket before leaving the station but I made an uncharacteristically reckless decision to give the incorrect station origin when asked. This decision was not planned. It is not a decision I have made previously nor is it one I will make again, and I deeply regret my actions. Having researched the matter, I now realise just how much money the Rail Company loses from fare evasion and the huge costs of trying to reduce this. I am completely ashamed that I have become a part of this problem.

I would also like to point out that I have no previous offences whatsoever. This incident was very out of character and I would hate for this stupid, split-second decision to impact my future so severely. I must, therefore, ask you again if there is any way that this incident can be settled without going to court. I will gladly pay a financial settlement to compensate you for the time you have expended on this case.

Also, I feel I should mention that as of 24/08/2014, I will be going abroad until the end of September. I do not know if this will have any effect on the proceedings but thought I should keep you informed.

Once again, I completely apologise for my behaviour. I acted foolishly and impulsively and it will never happen again."

 

[bb21]

With only four days to go, you are not giving them much time. Can you not ring the prosecutions department in this case? I don't normally recommend that people do it this way but you may prefer it if it gets sorted quickly. Get the operator's name in case of future disputes and pay promptly if offered. I know if I were in your situation I would rather it gets all sorted asap.

The letter sounds fine They may not even have started dealing with the case by September if you prefer it this way.

 

[JoeBristol]

Yeah I'd much rather get it sorted before I leave - I'm planning to be abroad quite a lot soon for a gap year. And also this has been hanging over me all summer stressing me out!

What would you recommend I say to them?

 

[bb21]

Just say what you said in the letter. Explain that you will be away for a period of time and ask if this could be settled without resorting to court before you leave. There is not much else to add.

 

[JoeBristol]

Thank you bb21, I'll let you know how it goes

 

[JoeBristol]

Hi, just a quick update.

I wrote them a letter rather than ringing them (I didn't want to risk saying anything to make it worse). They replied about 2 weeks later offering a £101 settlement (£21 for the unpaid ticket and £80 admin fees) to be paid within 14 days, which I'm very happy with.

Also thank you to everyone for the help and the advice. This forum has been so useful and I really appreciate all the support. Needless to say I won't be doing anything dumb like this again.

 

[Greenback]

Thanks for the update JoeBristol, glad you achieved an acceptable outcome.