Penalty Fare-Purchased after departure

[AlterEgo]

Here are some purchased tickets from past journeys if it helps

That is going to be less helpful to your cause than you think.

Please post the picture of the open ticket barriers you say you have.

 

[WesternLancer]

Strikes me there are 2 options available to @Sawa71

a) pay the Penalty Fare promptly to ensure the £50 discount is achieved.
or
b) submit an appeal, probably on the basis that the ticket machine was not operating at the departure station (Wolverton) and the ticket office was not open

If pursuing (b) the OP needs to know that railway companies claim to have records of when their ticket machines are broken and not operating, and should have logs of ticket offices being open or closed and the times concerned. Whether the logs of the ticket machines are accurate is sometimes open to doubt but unless you have some proof of ticket machines at the station being broken, if the railway company deny it, your Appeal would get rejected.

I would think there is nothing to be lost by submitting an appeal, unless....

If the OP has been not paying correctly for tickets on other occasion (or this occasion) it is possible that an Appeal might trigger some sort of check on that which would not be in the OPs interests.

However, if doing option (a) then that alone may not guarantee the railway company does not look for suspicious ticket buying on ticket buying records (or what they think of suspicious) and asking about that separately. However, if there is nothing suspicious about tickets previously bought then that is not a problem.

The other option would be to do nothing. That would not be a good idea because non payment of the Penalty Fare given will escalate to seem sort of court action and increased cost.

 

[AlterEgo]

If the OP has been not paying correctly for tickets on other occasion (or this occasion) it is possible that an Appeal might trigger some sort of check on that which would not be in the OPs interests.

The check will happen anyway - this company double dips like this routinely even if you pay the penalty fare and don't contest it. Will probably get a letter or email in a few months.

 

[WesternLancer]

The check will happen anyway - this company double dips like this routinely even if you pay the penalty fare and don't contest it. Will probably get a letter or email in a few months.

Yes, I suspect this is likely from what we see on other cases that get posted on the forum.

 

[tonycockram]

So it seems sensible for the op to be able to prove they were at Wolverton for this event and that they are often at Wolverton when they have bought tickets from Wolverton to show that they indeed got on at Wolverton. I’d imagine this could be done via Google mapping perhaps?
Or be prepared to explain why they have such a short ticket, purchased at Milton Keynes.

 

[KirkstallOne]

It's very muddy now because of the unhelpful intervention of the Chief Magistrate. The only way to absolutely prevent prosecution for this matter is to pay the Penalty Fare.

Not wishing to derail the thread but taking the ruling at face value there seems nothing preventing a prosecution even if the PF is paid.

Of course a competent defence may have pointed this out whilst the logical inconsistencies of the regulations were being discussed but alas, there was no representation for the defendants at all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Here are some purchased tickets from past journeys if it helps

No, it doesn’t help. All it does is prove you’ve bought lots of tickets from Wolverton to Milton Keynes, not that your origin was Wolverton not that your destination was Milton Keynes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2025 ==

Not wishing to derail the thread but taking the ruling at face value there seems nothing preventing a prosecution even if the PF is paid

True, although there is the separate regulation saying they have to refund the PF if they are to prosecute. I’d agree that all bets are off with that idiotic decision though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You were asked for a picture of the ticket gates. Not the tickets.

I suspect this is probably a "language barrier" (!) issue. Wolverton does not have ticket gates as others have stated. It does however have a side gate to access the platform not going via the booking hall which is signed as being open when the booking hall is closed. In practice, that's almost all the time (I've seen the booking hall open precisely once having used the station a fair bit) and it may well be that they never actually lock it. However even via the booking hall there is no gateline nor anything similar to one.

This gate can be seen behind the blue Amazon locker on this Google Streetview link:

Street View of Wolverton Station Car Park · Google Maps

175 Stratford Rd, Wolverton, Milton Keynes MK13 0DY

www.google.com

 

[MarlowDonkey]

OP subsequently explained they are regularly commuting Oxford to London. Nothing makes any sense, nothing passes the smell test, and the train company will know this too.

What makes sense is that the poster lives in Oxford and makes regular journeys to and from Wolverton. Given that EWR is not yet operational the trip is done by express coach to or from Milton Keynes and then the one stop by rail to Wolverton from MK and vice versa. If the TOC queries the one stop tickets, the explanation is that they are the connecting leg of a longer trip by rail and road.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What makes sense is that the poster lives in Oxford and makes regular journeys to and from Wolverton. Given that EWR is not yet operational the trip is done by express coach to or from Milton Keynes and then the one stop by rail to Wolverton from MK and vice versa. If the TOC queries the one stop tickets, the explanation is that they are the connecting leg of a longer trip by rail and road.

If the poster lives in Oxford and works in Wolverton (say) and can evidence both of those things as well as some Stagecoach bus ticket sales at times that fit (tickets or just from a bank statement), it's fairly easy to prove to the extent that would be required in Court that this isn't a case of short faring were their purchasing history to be investigated. It's not (pre opening of East West Rail) a particularly improbable journey, and there is plenty of employment in and near Wolverton, including some that wouldn't be available near Oxford e.g. the large Government site at Hanslope Park, plus 1830 is a pretty obvious "after work" sort of time to be going home.

So if the poster does have evidence along this line they should probably ensure they keep it in case it does escalate this way. But it may well not do; people do commute between local stations in Milton Keynes (it's orders of magnitude quicker than the bus), so it's not quite as obvious a short-fare as journeys hardly anyone makes by rail. Obviously had they been caught at Euston or Birmingham (or similar) this would be quite different.

For what it's worth the suggestion that the machine was broken is not implausible either, I have known it be myself. Though I expect some sort of log will exist to evidence that (or otherwise) given that it's stated that it was off completely. Indeed had the poster gone to the gateline with no ticket at all explaining that rather than one on their phone they might well just have been sold one. There is a machine inside the gateline (presumably primarily for collecting ToD bookings that couldn't be collected elsewhere for whatever reason) but I doubt most people would think to use that to buy a ticket from somewhere else as while WMT's machines do do "tickets from other stations" people wouldn't necessarily expect it to do so as not all TVMs do.

 

[WesternLancer]

If the poster lives in Oxford and works in Wolverton (say) and can evidence both of those things as well as some Stagecoach bus ticket sales at times that fit (tickets or just from a bank statement), it's fairly easy to prove to the extent that would be required in Court that this isn't a case of short faring were their purchasing history to be investigated. It's not (pre opening of East West Rail) a particularly improbable journey, and there is plenty of employment in and near Wolverton, including some that wouldn't be available near Oxford e.g. the large Government site at Hanslope Park, plus 1830 is a pretty obvious "after work" sort of time to be going home.

So if the poster does have evidence along this line they should probably ensure they keep it in case it does escalate this way. But it may well not do; people do commute between local stations in Milton Keynes (it's orders of magnitude quicker than the bus), so it's not quite as obvious a short-fare as journeys hardly anyone makes by rail. Obviously had they been caught at Euston or Birmingham (or similar) this would be quite different.

For what it's worth the suggestion that the machine was broken is not implausible either, I have known it be myself. Though I expect some sort of log will exist to evidence that (or otherwise) given that it's stated that it was off completely. Indeed had the poster gone to the gateline with no ticket at all explaining that rather than one on their phone they might well just have been sold one. There is a machine inside the gateline (presumably primarily for collecting ToD bookings that couldn't be collected elsewhere for whatever reason) but I doubt most people would think to use that to buy a ticket from somewhere else as while WMT's machines do do "tickets from other stations" people wouldn't necessarily expect it to do so as not all TVMs do.

I can see this line of thought.

And indeed good and important advice they retain evidence of bus / coach tickets that may help to show travel to Wolverton that connect with the train.

In this context the OP should appeal the Penalty Fare based on the fact that there were no working ticket issuing facilities at the station where they departed from (Wolverton)

To give the OP the benefit of the doubt many people (including UK citizens who travel by train fairly regularly) when faced with an inability to buy a ticket from a machine (or ticket office) might well try to 'do the right thing' and buy one on their phone during or immediately after arriving at their destination (esp if the journey was a short one and they didn't have time to buy it on phone before getting on the train). As we know from plenty of other threads, many people are not aware of the 'Buy Before Your Board' requirements for ticket purchase.

If the Ticket Inspector at Milton Keynes strongly suspected 'short faring' fare evasion perhaps they should have reported the passenger for investigation instead of issuing a Penalty Fare.

 

[Sawa71]

Sorry for the increased confusion in this thread and thanks again for everyone's reply, I asked my friend about the photo of opening barriers small gate but he hasn't came back with it yet. Thanks for reminding me that is not a barrier. As I've submitted the appeal, I'll clarify it if they got question about it in the future.

If the poster lives in Oxford and works in Wolverton (say) and can evidence both of those things as well as some Stagecoach bus ticket sales at times that fit (tickets or just from a bank statement), it's fairly easy to prove to the extent that would be required in Court that this isn't a case of short faring were their purchasing history to be investigated. It's not (pre opening of East West Rail) a particularly improbable journey, and there is plenty of employment in and near Wolverton, including some that wouldn't be available near Oxford e.g. the large Government site at Hanslope Park, plus 1830 is a pretty obvious "after work" sort of time to be going home.

So if the poster does have evidence along this lines they should probably ensure they keep it in case it does escalate this way. But it may well not do; people do commute between local stations in Milton Keynes (it's orders of magnitude quicker than the bus), so it's not quite as obvious a short-fare as journeys hardly anyone makes by rail.

Thank you very much for clarifying the confusion, that gate was exactly the one I got through to the station. I have full evidence(bus tickets/messages/deliveroo receipts) to show that I'm there with my friend that weekend and I answered the inspector when she asked me about it so I'm rest assured. I'll keep the receipts safe as you said.

What makes sense is that the poster lives in Oxford and makes regular journeys to and from Wolverton. Given that EWR is not yet operational the trip is done by express coach to or from Milton Keynes and then the one stop by rail to Wolverton from MK and vice versa. If the TOC queries the one stop tickets, the explanation is that they are the connecting leg of a longer trip by rail and road.

Thank you and yes I think the inspector does believe that I came from Wolverton that time as I told her which street my friend's house at. But if they query it I'll state that explanation.

 

[furlong]

It's a straightforward appeal - purchase after departure is never a valid reason for issuing a penalty fare.

A PF can only be issued if a valid ticket was not presented. One was presented - the journey was paid for - no penalty fare can be imposed.

Additionally if there were no facilities in operation, that's a separate reason why one can't be imposed.

Any suspicion the OP made a different journey, that would be for the train company to prove but a PF cannot be issued on mere suspicion, and if the person who issued it knew they had begun their journey elsewhere, then the reason stated on the notice would have had to have been different.

 

[Starmill]

If this happens in future, you should speak to a member of staff at a station where you change trains or end your journey and say "I have travelled from [name of station, i.e. In this case you would say Wolverton] just now, but I wasn't able to buy a ticket before boarding because [the reason - i.e. in this case you would say that there was a fault with the ticket machine and there were no staff to sell tickets available]".

If you wish to buy a ticket using your own device, this is perfectly acceptable also, although you aren't obligated to. If choosing this method you must ensure you have the tickets in hand before boarding - no exceptions.

 

[Egg Centric]

@Sawa71 out of interest when did you come to the UK on your visit and when are you leaving? Unless it's changed recently most UK visits are for up to 6 months so a routine makes sense, but I'm not sure why a commute would? There's also a potential issue here about the correspondence dragging on too long for when you leave.

 

[Starmill]

It's a straightforward appeal - purchase after departure is never a valid reason for issuing a penalty fare.

A PF can only be issued if a valid ticket was not presented. One was presented - the journey was paid for - no penalty fare can be imposed.

Additionally if there were no facilities in operation, that's a separate reason why one can't be imposed.

Any suspicion the OP made a different journey, that would be for the train company to prove but a PF cannot be issued on mere suspicion, and if the person who issued it knew they had begun their journey elsewhere, then the reason stated on the notice would have had to have been different.

Agreed. It's good a PF was issued because it means the appeal route is available.

 

[Sawa71]

Update: The appeal was successful, it responded within a week.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Update: The appeal was successful, it responded within a week.

Thank you for coming back to tell us.

Just one extra piece of advice from me. WMR have form for going through someone’s purchase history and emailing them if they think someone is short-faring or similar. If WMR email you, ignore them.