penalty fare/old address

[neuroticaboutt]

I'll try to keep this brief and clear:

- Bought an advance ticket from A to B, but got on the first stop, i.e. not at where the train was originating from. Had no idea this wasn't allowed, revenue officer issued me with fixed penalty.
- Northern Rail.
- Thought the 'offence' of travelling for actually less time on a train than I'd paid for was ridiculous so I was quite frustrated/annoyed.
- Looked for I.D in my wallet but couldn't find it, although I provided my name and rev. protection officer took a picture of my e-ticket (purchased from Uber, FWIW)
- Gave an address of where I used to live, not my current address. Panic/frustration/stupidity, call it what you will. Stumbled over one letter in the postcode initally.
- It's a route I have taken and will take regularly.
- If it comes to hedging my bets, a fine doesn't scare me, any legal action (criminal record) very much does, obviously.

Questions:
1) If I just pay the fine is that that?
2) Worst case scenario with the false address?
3) Worst case scenario of not paying fine?
3) Whether I pay the fine or not should I be mindful of using that train line?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jfollows]

If you pay the penalty fare, that should be the end of it, they will have no need to try and contact you.
In future, you should buy the correct ticket for the journey that you are making. If you want flexibility, buy a different ticket than an advance ticket - a regular single or return allows break of journey and you don't need to get a specific train from a specific place.
If you don't pay the penalty fare, they will eventually find you and you don't want to go there. The penalty fare is a means of disposing of the issue without resorting to a criminal prosecution and, once paid, the matter is closed.

 

[neuroticaboutt]

thanks for quick reply. so I pay the fine and the fact the address was wrong is just forgotten? I mean, they'd have little reason to pursue anything.

 

[jfollows]

As you say, if the penalty fare is paid then Northern Rail has no further need to contact you.
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/legal/penalty-fares may have some information relating to your other questions.
But if you pay the penalty fare promptly it's discounted by £50 and payment ends the process.

EDIT If you don't pay, they will write to you at the address you've given, then when they discover that it's the wrong address they will use debt collectors and others of that ilk to find you at your new address, and this will simply add to the price you'll eventually have to pay when they find you.

EDIT Further observation - if you are unsure about the best ticket to buy, then create a new thread in the fares section of the forum and describe your travel needs, and others can then give advice on the best ticket(s) for you to buy.

 

[neuroticaboutt]

Thanks again. But the legalities of the wrong address concern me most - worst case scenario? Fines/bayliffs aren't my biggest fear.

 

[jfollows]

Thanks again. But the legalities of the wrong address concern me most - worst case scenario? Fines/bayliffs aren't my biggest fear.

You committed a criminal offence by giving the wrong address, under The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 as amended in 2022 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366) but if you drive at 40mph along a road where the speed limit is 30mph you also commit a criminal offence, but if nobody is around to measure your speed at the time then nothing will come of it. The same here, you can invent a "worst case scenario" but if you don't give Northern Rail a reason to know that you gave the wrong address then nothing will come of it.

 

[island]

If the Penalty Fare is paid in full on time that will be the end of the matter.

There are some lines of argument that the appropriate disposal of this situation is an excess fare to the flexible single ticket rather than a Penalty Fare. I do not believe that a Penalty Fare is inappropriate here so I do not propose to run that argument, but others may do.

 

[Hadders]

If you have been issued with a Penalty Fare, then once you pay it that will be the end of the matter.

**Pedant alert** only a court can issue a fine following a conviction so while a Penalty Fare might feel like a fine it isn't, it's a higher than normal fare issued to people in certain circumstances.

Can you upload a copy of what the revenue inspector gave you (but do remove any personal information first) so we can check that you have actually been issued with a Penalty Fare.

 

[VT118]

How on earth is it legal for them to do this?!

He paid more than he needed to. Why on earth is that seen as an offence?

I have on occasion, paid for a return between points A to C but got off/on at B. Is this really an offence?

 

[Haywain]

I have on occasion, paid for a return between points A to C but got off/on at B. Is this really an offence?

That will depend on what type of ticket you hold and where A and C are in relation to B.

 

[Huntergreed]

How on earth is it legal for them to do this?!

He paid more than he needed to. Why on earth is that seen as an offence?

I have on occasion, paid for a return between points A to C but got off/on at B. Is this really an offence?

It’s in the conditions of an advance ticket that the ticket may be used for the journey outlined in the itinerary and only that journey.

Regardless of whether the actual journey made is shorter/longer/more expensive/less expensive, if the itinerary is not followed exactly (at least for the reservable trains) or the journey is started/finished short, this invalidates the ticket.

The price is significantly reduced as a result of this extremely restrictive validity. Breaching that, regardless of cost implication, is considered an offence and it is technically correct for the matter to be dealt with in this way.

Some TOC’s may show discretion in enforcing these conditions (indeed the industry guidance is only to prosecute where it is clear a journey has ended short due to the intent to avoid paying a higher intermediate fare). This is not the case in this scenario however and the TOC is still able to prosecute/charge for this.

In this case, it sounds like a penalty fare has been issued (intended for when a passenger makes an honest mistake, so correctly issued in this instance).

 

[AlterEgo]

He paid more than he needed to.

We don't know that. It is possible that B to C has no advance fares, for example.

 

[30907]

We don't know that. It is possible that B to C has no advance fares, for example.

This is quite common for Northern short-distance Advances - we recently had an example on the Harrogate line where a fare from Leeds exists but not from (?) Horsforth.

 

[Haywain]

we recently had an example on the Harrogate line where a fare from Leeds exists but not from (?) Horsforth

Burley Park, I think.

 

[fandroid]

Can we just confirm that you have been given a Penalty Fare Notice? That's an official term and is governed by fairly strict regulations and processes. Northern have been known to issue "Fixed Penalty Notices", which is a term that is their own invention and is not governed by any regulations. If you put an image up on here of the notice you received, we can get a clearer idea of what it is and advise accordingly. Block out anything that will identify you or any reference numbers

 

[island]

Can we just confirm that you have been given a Penalty Fare Notice? That's an official term and is governed by fairly strict regulations and processes. Northern have been known to issue "Fixed Penalty Notices", which is a term that is their own invention and is not governed by any regulations. If you put an image up on here of the notice you received, we can get a clearer idea of what it is and advise accordingly. Block out anything that will identify you or any reference numbers

I don't think that's relevant at this juncture; either type of notice, if paid, will bring the matter to a close.

 

[RPI]

You may have had grounds for an appeal had you not given incorrect details, but doing so now would highlight the fact that incorrect details were given and could make it worse.

The path of least resistance would be to pay it and get it out the way.