Penalty fare notice

[important]

Hello

Today I was stopped by the railway inspector and I had bought a 16-25 ticket instead of a 16-25 one, he asked me for my name and address which I gave to him and then he looked at my trip history. He saw that I have bought the tickets on 16-17 for 10 times before which i bought 16-25 up to about 70 times.
He gave me a penalty fare notice and showed me how much i need to pay but i am worried that looking at that I have bought it 10 times including the one today i might be sent a mail for prosecution anytime soon.
I have paid the penalty fare notice immediately but still worried over receiving a mail. Do anyone think I will still get prosecuted since I was given a penalty fare notice and I have paid already?

 

[jfollows]

If you have paid a Penalty Fare that is the end of the matter.
If you should receive anything unrelated to this then please come back here for advice. Otherwise stop worrying!
Essentially if the inspector wanted to do something about your trip history you would have been reported for potential prosecution rather than given a Penalty Fare, they can’t do both.

 

[important]

So does that mean there have never been a case here where after the penalty fare notice was given and paid the person was still sent a letter of notice to prosecute?
Asking because I read off chrome that they can prosecute

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

DO NOT email the train company about this. You will incriminate yourself if you do so and you are not required to do this.

Once the Penalty Fare is paid that is the end of the matter in respect of the incident where you were caught. It is possible that the train company might take a look at your ticket purchasing history and conatct you about it but the important principle is that purchasing tickets isn't illegal, but using them illegally is. While you were caught redhanded there is no evidence that you used the other tickets - it's highly unlikely that the train company would have any proof you did use them but if you tell them you did then you've just dropped yourself in it!

If you do get a letter or email from the train company about other incidents do not reply to it. Do not even ackowledge it but instead post a redacted copy of it in this thread and we can assist with next steps etc.

 

[Haywain]

He gave me a penalty fare notice and showed me how much i need to pay but i am worried that looking at that I have bought it 10 times including the one today i might be sent a mail for prosecution anytime soon.

Which train company issued the Penalty Fare Notice? We know that some companies might send a letter later, but they have lost their realistic opportunity to bring a prosecution against you.

 

[important]

Which train company issued the Penalty Fare Notice? We know that some companies might send a letter later, but they have lost their realistic opportunity to bring a prosecution against you.

West Midlands railway

I am just bothered I might still get sent a mail, cause he did take my address and name.

That's why i have been on every platform asking if after a penalty fare notice do you get a mail of notice of prosecution or call from fraud department.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .W.M.R. do seem to have introduced a policy about getting hysterical over this as two other cases in this Forum section prove!

. . .DO NOT engage with them or contact them or reply – as @Hadders states, you'll drop yourself right in it if you do, but do be aware that you'll continue to get more hysterical Rantings And Ravings from them on the subject – the onus is on THEM to prove you've done wrong, not for you to hand it to 'em on a plate!

. . .If you've paid the P.F. they can do no more about it without producing direct evidence!

 

[furlong]

Essentially if the inspector wanted to do something about your trip history you would have been reported for potential prosecution rather than given a Penalty Fare, they can’t do both.

Not true. The inspector can impose a Penalty Fare to deal with the immediate matter in hand and separately request an investigation into previous journeys. They are free to treat them as two separate matters should they wish.

 

[important]

. . .W.M.R. do seem to have introduced a policy about getting hysterical over this as two other cases in this Forum section prove!

. . .DO NOT engage with them or contact them or reply – as @Hadders states, you'll drop yourself right in it if you do, but do be aware that you'll continue to get more hysterical Rantings And Ravings from them on the subject – the onus is on THEM to prove you've done wrong, not for you to hand it to 'em on a plate!

. . .If you've paid the P.F. they can do no more about it without producing direct evidence!

Thank you. I should just wait and see what happens then

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2025 ==

Not true. The inspector can impose a Penalty Fare to deal with the immediate matter in hand and separately request an investigation into previous journeys. They are free to treat them as two separate matters should they wish.

Okay thank you. I guess I have nothing else to do now than wait.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2025 ==

Just a question, does out of court settlement shows on an enhanced DBs?

 

[Pushpit]

Just a question, does out of court settlement shows on an enhanced DBs?

No, the never do. Only convictions, cautions and (some) reprimands, plus any police intelligence. Even if BTP were involved with this incident - in itself unlikely - then it's unlikely this would meet the threshold for e-DBS. To state the obvious, if you are in an enhanced DBS role, it is truly incumbent on you to maintain high standards in respect of your personal responsibilities to society.

 

[important]

Not true. The inspector can impose a Penalty Fare to deal with the immediate matter in hand and separately request an investigation into previous journeys. They are free to treat them as two separate matters should they wish.

What do you think is likely to happen, if treated as two different cases what kind of message am i to be expecting?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 May 2025 ==

Not true. The inspector can impose a Penalty Fare to deal with the immediate matter in hand and separately request an investigation into previous journeys. They are free to treat them as two separate matters should they wish.

If treated as two different cases can I still get a out of court settlement or is there further action.

 

[Titfield]

The letter may appear threatening (of prosecution) but yes there is is still a good possibility of an out of court settlement.

 

[important]

The letter may appear threatening (of prosecution) but yes there is is still a good possibility of an out of court settlement.

I am just hopeful that since I have paid the penalty fare notice it could end there but still kind of want to prepare for any mail I get.
Have you seen any incidents of my kind?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It is unlikely that you will receive further communication and/or prosecution. WMT RPMs are trained to either PF or to issue an MG11 (report for prosecution). I'm not aware of this being changed at this time.

If they were planning on taking this further they would have issued an MG11 at the time.

However, should you be caught with any ticketing irregularities in future then they may issue an MG11 and bring up previous Penalty Fares in communication with you so make sure you're squeaky clean from now on.

 

[important]

It is unlikely that you will receive further communication and/or prosecution. WMT RPMs are trained to either PF or to issue an MG11 (report for prosecution). I'm not aware of this being changed at this time.

If they were planning on taking this further they would have issued an MG11 at the time.

However, should you be caught with any ticketing irregularities in future then they may issue an MG11 and bring up previous Penalty Fares in communication with you so make sure you're squeaky clean from now on.

Okay. I just started using my rail card this February, I have used it from Feb till date and have over 70+ journey with the same route always, with 10 of the last been 70+ journey been bought with 16-17 rail instead of 16-25.

So the inspector asked my name, address and signature to sign and then printed the penalty fare notice and said something around fraud department or prosecution before then giving me the penalty fare notice ticket. So I am confused going through all the thread with when people don't get penalty fare notice they are email or mailed.

Guess I just have to wait to see if he reported the case to the team after he gave me the penalty fare notice.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

So I am confused going through all the thread with when people don't get penalty fare notice they are email or mailed.

Guess I just have to wait to see if he reported the case to the team after he gave me the penalty fare notice.

You have received a Penalty Fare Notice, you have not been reported for prosecution as you would have received a different type of paperwork. You have clearly been lucky this time as, from what you have said, you could very easily have been facing a threat or criminal proceedings.

Pay up early (if you haven't already) and this is done with. Just don't be tempted to do it again, it's really not worth it and they will catch up with you again eventually if you do. Also be aware that conductors can flag your ticket if you do get caught again so it doesn't need to be Revenue Protection who catch you.

 

[Pushpit]

What is particularly important is that over 6 months since your previous 16-17 offence you now need to get a squeaky clean record. So always check your railcard is in date (the commonest problem reported here), it is the correct railcard to which you are entitled, and that the ticket is valid for the service you are on, and you hold that ticket before boarding the train. The reason being that if you are caught again you could be in a very awkward position for any "previous". That actually doesn't magically go away after 6 months (arguably 7 months given some lag time in the process) but your leverage somewhat increases in your favour at that point. You were lucky, but luck isn't a good way forward for you.

 

[important]

You have received a Penalty Fare Notice, you have not been reported for prosecution as you would have received a different type of paperwork. You have clearly been lucky this time as, from what you have said, you could very easily have been facing a threat or criminal proceedings.

Pay up early (if you haven't already) and this is done with. Just don't be tempted to do it again, it's really not worth it and they will catch up with you again eventually if you do. Also be aware that conductors can flag your ticket if you do get caught again so it doesn't need to be Revenue Protection who catch you.

Thank you, I have paid up the penalty fare notice already.

 

[Hadders]

Payment of the Penalty Fare deals with the case where you were caught. Some train comanies search ticketing purchasing records to identify other cases of travelling with invalid fares, although based on what others have said above WMR doesn't normally do this.

As I said in my earlier post in this thread if you do get a letter or email from the train company about other incidents do not reply to it. Do not even ackowledge it but instead post a redacted copy of it in this thread and we can assist with next steps etc.

 

[important]

Still waiting for an email or letter, how long will I have to wait is been a month now

 

[30907]

Still waiting for an email or letter, how long will I have to wait is been a month now

After six months they can't take you to court (basically) - but please don't worry about something you have been clearly advised NOT to reply to.

 

[important]

After six months they can't take you to court (basically) - but please don't worry about something you have been clearly advised NOT to reply to.

Okay, will post here if i get an email from them.

 

[important]

Good day everyone, I have still not gotten any email or post from west midlands train and if more than two months already.
What should I do next as I am worried? Does it take as long as this to get an email from them?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Good day everyone, I have still not gotten any email or post from west midlands train and if more than two months already.
What should I do next as I am worried? Does it take as long as this to get an email from them?

Difficult to say for definite, but if you've received a PF from West Midlands Trains and paid it, you might well not now hear anything further from them. Noted @jfollows said as much back in post #2

 

[Hadders]

There isn't really anything you can do at the moment. You've paid the Penalty Fare for that was given to you, it's for WMT to contact you about anything else.

 

[odetoboy]

Good day everyone, I have still not gotten any email or post from west midlands train and if more than two months already.
What should I do next as I am worried? Does it take as long as this to get an email from them?

I got an email (correction, i have received 3 so far) threatening prosecution for a non-incident that happened approx 6 months ago. i was also issued a penalty fare in a similar time frame, we may be in apparently similar positions (though i never committed fare evasion*), you can potentially expect to receive an email up to 6 months after the date of your last offence. at this time though, theres not much to worry about as they clearly arent onto you.

*that being said, they accused me of much more severe charges than you and it seemingly flew under the radar for MONTHS. do not contact them until they pick up on it, and im sure the “statute of limitations” will pass in good time. put it to bed for now!

 

[important]

Okay, I guess I just have to keep waiting

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

I got an email (correction, i have received 3 so far) threatening prosecution for a non-incident that happened approx 6 months ago. i was also issued a penalty fare in a similar time frame, we may be in apparently similar positions (though i never committed fare evasion*), you can potentially expect to receive an email up to 6 months after the date of your last offence. at this time though, theres not much to worry about as they clearly arent onto you.

*that being said, they accused me of much more severe charges than you and it seemingly flew under the radar for MONTHS. do not contact them until they pick up on it, and im sure the “statute of limitations” will pass in good time. put it to bed for now!

Yeah, I will just keep on waiting till I am contacted.

 

[RPI]

It is unlikely that you will receive further communication and/or prosecution. WMT RPMs are trained to either PF or to issue an MG11 (report for prosecution). I'm not aware of this being changed at this time.

If they were planning on taking this further they would have issued an MG11 at the time.

However, should you be caught with any ticketing irregularities in future then they may issue an MG11 and bring up previous Penalty Fares in communication with you so make sure you're squeaky clean from now on.

That's what should happen, but these forums are testament to the fact that WMT seems to issue PF's for incidents like this, then go on a fishing expedition afterwards, I've long said that I think this will come back and bite them (WMT) on the rear end at some point.

If you go back through the threads there are several incidents of WMR doing this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

After six months they can't take you to court (basically) - but please don't worry about something you have been clearly advised NOT to reply to.

They could attempt to use the civil court to reclaim previous fares, other TOC's are doing this.

 

[important]

hello, is been over 5 months now and I am yet to receive an email or letter. should I be worried about it?

 

[Haywain]

hello, is been over 5 months now and I am yet to receive an email or letter. should I be worried about it?

Get on with your life and stop worrying. There is no guarantee that you will hear anything more. If you do, you have already been told how to deal with it.