Ongoing Dispute with West Midlands Trains

[FlyingV99]

Hi all, Im new to this forum and after reading through some of the threads regarding short fair fines and the disputes you had/are currently in I thought id post my own to receive any advice.

I was approached by an officer last month after an attempted Trainline Short Fair by buying a £1.96 ticket from Duddeston to Birmingham New Street when I was infact travelling from Tamworth. I gave the officer a fake name and address (I know...stupid) and I thought nothing of it. That was until I had an email, to what originally looked like spam, from West Midlands Trains regarding a recent fraud attempt at Birmingham new street, and that I needed to respond.

I will attach the current email thread and where I'm up to currently, any advice is massively appreciated and I hope to god I'm not further incriminating myself posting to this forum hahahaha.

I hope the screenshots upload in the right order.
Can they charge me for journeys they cannot prove were short faired? as I said I was caught going from duddeston but the others were normal tramline purchases?

 

[AlterEgo]

The golden question is - did you or did you not short fare on those occasions?

What do you hope to achieve by being abrasive with them? Do you have any evidence to substantiate all of the short journeys?

As it stands, they’re investigating you for committing a single criminal offence punishable in the magistrates’ court. You’ll get a criminal record if convicted, have to pay a fine as your sentence, and the train company’s costs, etc etc.

Your correspondence and tone with them is unwise and be under no illusions they can and will use the statements against you in court.

If you don’t cooperate with them about the extent of your offending, they will just prosecute you for the offence they caught you red handed.

 

[dosxuk]

Can they charge me for journeys they cannot prove were short faired? as I said I was caught going from duddeston but the others were normal tramline purchases?

They are accusing you of buying tickets seconds before going through the barriers at your destination. You are required to hold a ticket before you board a train, so even if those tickets aren't short fares, they are still unlikely to be valid tickets.

It is unwise to assume WMT don't know what you've been up to and to try and style it out. They will give up and simply prosecute you for the offence they have complete proof of. They have already clearly demonstrated that they know more about you than you think they do just from being able to easily get your actual email address. Note that giving incorrect details when asked is another offence you could be charged with.

 

[chrisjo]

hahahaha.

Not sure why you think this is funny, but the attitude you have demonstrated so far would make me determined to take this case as far as it can possibly go. I suggest a serious tactical re-appraisal.

 

[minderbinder]

I was approached by an officer last month after an attempted Trainline Short Fair by buying a £1.96 ticket from Duddeston to Birmingham New Street when I was infact travelling from Tamworth.

You should be aware that you were caught committing a criminal offence and WMT have the right to prosecute you. If they do so, you will be found guilty and be given a fine and a criminal record. The fact that they are offering you an out-of-court settlement is very good news and I should be careful in antagonising them.

I gave the officer a fake name and address (I know...stupid) and I thought nothing of it.

So, this is also a criminal offence (and also an aggravating factor to the first offence of travelling without a valid ticket).

Can they charge me for journeys they cannot prove were short faired?

Yes. They might not successfully be able to prosecute you for the ones they didn't catch you in person for but they can certainly charge you for them. That is what they are attempting to do.

as I said I was caught going from duddeston but the others were normal tramline purchases?

They have explained in their emails to you that the tickets were invalid because
a) You had applied a railcard discount to which you weren't entitled (as your railcard had expired)
b) You didn't have a valid ticket when boarding the train and it is clear, from checking the tickets, that you purchased the tickets seconds before reaching the station's exit barriers
(Plus some just look to be prima facie cases of short-faring)

Reading through your email exchange with them, I am astonished that they haven't already moved this to prosecution.

 

[WesternLancer]

I would have thought that is this one incident where they caught the OP went to court it would result in a larger amount needing to be paid in court fine and costs than the sum being asked for as a settlement.
And we know from other cases that court bailiffs are very good at finding people who have court debts to pay - by which time the sum owed has usually increased even further.

I suspect the OP needs to appreciate that they are offering the choice of

a) paying the sum they believe has been evaded plus some admin
or
b) being taken to court, paying more than (a) and having a criminal record as well

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s a very interesting and unique line of argument to say “I’ll pay the one for the time I got caught” yet insist the other, fairly blatant short fares are all legitimate. They will have the purchase time and the scan data for those; deeply unwise to make any sort of comment on them at all, let alone double down in this way!

 

[6Gman]

Hi all, Im new to this forum and after reading through some of the threads regarding short fair fines and the disputes you had/are currently in I thought id post my own to receive any advice.

I was approached by an officer last month after an attempted Trainline Short Fair by buying a £1.96 ticket from Duddeston to Birmingham New Street when I was infact travelling from Tamworth. I gave the officer a fake name and address (I know...stupid) and I thought nothing of it. That was until I had an email, to what originally looked like spam, from West Midlands Trains regarding a recent fraud attempt at Birmingham new street, and that I needed to respond.

I will attach the current email thread and where I'm up to currently, any advice is massively appreciated and I hope to god I'm not further incriminating myself posting to this forum hahahaha.

I hope the screenshots upload in the right order.
Can they charge me for journeys they cannot prove were short faired? as I said I was caught going from duddeston but the others were normal tramline purchases?

Well, if nothing else, you've now also confessed to giving a false name and address!

I would back the advice already given - pay them what they're asking for or you'll be seeing them in court.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It’s a very interesting and unique line of argument to say “I’ll pay the one for the time I got caught” yet insist the other, fairly blatant short fares are all legitimate. They will have the purchase time and the scan data for those; deeply unwise to make any sort of comment on them at all, let alone double down in this way!

They have probably already checked arrival times around the time of purchase and deduced that a train from Tamworth arrives just a few minutes prior yet one from the X-City North did not.