Official mpg figures released for NB4L

[Busaholic]

Official figures published in the Times 2/10/14 show that the NBfL achieves much fewer miles per gallon than claimed by Boris Johnson when he unveiled it. The 11.6 mpg was only achieved in tests at Millbrook: actual figures are 6.2 on the 9 route and 6.5 on the 10 which are virtually the same as other, non-NB4L hybrid vehicles costing on average £40,000 less per vehicle. TfL were quoted as saying 'it is difficult to compare performance on different routes because of hills, the frequency of stops and congestion.'
My own interpretation of that statement, given that the 9 and 10 encounter nothing other than gentle inclines on their otherwise flat routes, is that figures for the 24, which does have a hill to climb, are even worse.So an extra £40,000 x 500 of these vehicles = £20,000,000 wasted plus development costs and extra crew member costs, where carried (and 'carried' being the operative word in every sense).

 

[83G/84D]

I recently saw a restored 1929 Maudsley bus at a rally, the driver / owner said that did 5mpg!

 

[Busaholic]

I recently saw a restored 1929 Maudsley bus at a rally, the driver / owner said that did 5mpg!

So we've made progress- at a price!

 

[LexyBoy]

Hardly surprising when it weighs nearly a tonne more than standard hybrid double deckers:
http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2014/05/06/latest-lardbus-weight-still-lardy/

 

[SWTH]

We managed better in the 80's & 90's. A Gardner 6LXB in a VR can easily return 10mpg, the Cummins L10 is nearly as good. Even the DAF 105XF artic (12.9litre engine producing 510bhp) that a friend of mine drives returns at least 7mpg, and that's when fully laden at 44tonne.

Even the Tridents & Enviro 400's (5.9litre/225bhp) were poor compared to the last big engined deckers - an L10 producing 245bhp (and loads more torque) was more economical, less stressed and more reliable, but poor on emissions.

 

[freetoview33]

Seems like a total waste of money and time

 

[455driver]

Seems like a total waste of money and time

I think a few people mentioned that that would be the case before they were even built!

These buses are nothing more than a vanity project.

 

[Mr Manager]

We managed better in the 80's & 90's. A Gardner 6LXB in a VR can easily return 10mpg, the Cummins L10 is nearly as good. Even the DAF 105XF artic (12.9litre engine producing 510bhp) that a friend of mine drives returns at least 7mpg, and that's when fully laden at 44tonne.

Well he would not be working for me very long. My identical spec trucks running at 44 ton continually return 9.2-9.7

 

[90019]

Though HGVs tend to be doing longer runs with less frequent stops.

 

[starrymarkb]

MPG would depend on the work the vehicle is on somewhat, one operating short runs around Cornwall (ie Bulk work or running for Imerys*) would drink more then one on long Motorway work

On a Tangent I Remember when I was working at a dealership for a well known German truckmaker, there were complaints about a certain Cornish customer's trucks getting very poor MPG. It took a while to diagnose the problem, the customer was filling them with Paraffin! The reason it took a while was he'd drain the trucks tank and fill it with diesel before bringing it in to be looked at. IIRC it was found when it was recovered in with a problem in the fuel system and it had been brought straight in without going back to the yard to be drained. I understand HMRC paid him a visit shortly afterwards.

 

[SWTH]

Well he would not be working for me very long. My identical spec trucks running at 44 ton continually return 9.2-9.7

He's on logs - lots of slogging in and out of forests, and up and down A/B roads. If he gets allocated a week covering fridges (motorway work) he gets somewhere around your figures.

 

[ian1944]

Seems like a total waste of money and time

Boris, or his bus?

 

[robertclark125]

This is similar to when CIE decided not to buy British Leyland buses after a row in the late 1970s, and decided upon their own design or family of buses. The Bombardier/GAC range. Whilst I have no doubt the Borismaster is better put together than the KD's etc that CIE ran, the MPG figures for the KD's, KR's and the KE's were worse than any of BL's products, or those of other makes, such as MCW or Dennis.

The other issue was that despite the best attempts of Bombardier, no examples of the CIE products exist outwith Ireland, as the export market didn't want it, and the special production plant at Shannon wasn't making enough buses to make money. This was partly due to CIE not needing the total amount every year the plant needed to build to break even, and the lack of export.

The Borismaster is built at a plant that builds other buses, so an export market isn't an issue as such; the production line required though will mean that x amount of Borismasters would need to be made for that production line to make money, probably a less amount than what Bombardier needed to make at Shannon in the 1980's.

However, there are a few things that need considering. Firstly, London is the key market for it. But, if Boris does get elected as an MP in 2015, that means by 2016, there will be a new mayor in London. It then means that, whoever they are and whatever party they represent, they may decide that the NBfL doesn't meet the requriements for London. They may choose to end the project, and let operators buy their own buses.

The other thing is, although some firms have expressed an interest in trying one out, this doesn't mean orders will be placed. And if these figures coming out are correct about MPG, I can't imagine many firms wanting to order the bus, when there are cheaper and more economical vehicles elsewhere.

It's amazing that one bus is linked to the political future of just one man, but that's the way it is, and the political steps voters decide to take with him will determine whether his pet project survives.

 

[Robertj21a]

This is similar to when CIE decided not to buy British Leyland buses after a row in the late 1970s, and decided upon their own design or family of buses. The Bombardier/GAC range. Whilst I have no doubt the Borismaster is better put together than the KD's etc that CIE ran, the MPG figures for the KD's, KR's and the KE's were worse than any of BL's products, or those of other makes, such as MCW or Dennis.

The other issue was that despite the best attempts of Bombardier, no examples of the CIE products exist outwith Ireland, as the export market didn't want it, and the special production plant at Shannon wasn't making enough buses to make money. This was partly due to CIE not needing the total amount every year the plant needed to build to break even, and the lack of export.

The Borismaster is built at a plant that builds other buses, so an export market isn't an issue as such; the production line required though will mean that x amount of Borismasters would need to be made for that production line to make money, probably a less amount than what Bombardier needed to make at Shannon in the 1980's.

However, there are a few things that need considering. Firstly, London is the key market for it. But, if Boris does get elected as an MP in 2015, that means by 2016, there will be a new mayor in London. It then means that, whoever they are and whatever party they represent, they may decide that the NBfL doesn't meet the requriements for London. They may choose to end the project, and let operators buy their own buses.

The other thing is, although some firms have expressed an interest in trying one out, this doesn't mean orders will be placed. And if these figures coming out are correct about MPG, I can't imagine many firms wanting to order the bus, when there are cheaper and more economical vehicles elsewhere.

It's amazing that one bus is linked to the political future of just one man, but that's the way it is, and the political steps voters decide to take with him will determine whether his pet project survives.

Whatever happens Boris won't stay on as mayor. So his bus will die out around the same time - no need for, or interest in, it outside London. Dead duck.

 

[edwin_m]

If they've got any sense Wrights will have recouped their design costs up front so they don't lose out if the flow of orders suddenly ceases.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If they've got any sense Wrights will have recouped their design costs up front so they don't lose out if the flow of orders suddenly ceases.

IIRC they did, hence the first 7 demonstrators (LT1-LT7, the ones with GB number plates rather than NI) costing £11m between them

 

[Titfield]

I wonder if Leon Daniels will talk about this in his blog!

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder if Leon Daniels will talk about this in his blog!

Only after his retirement.