NXEMU - Sliding doors?

[asylumxl]

I know that Siemens has proposed a design with sliding doors. What about the Bombardier design? Have they chosen sliding or plug?

I personally think that sliding doors have no place on a longer distance route. I realise the core is almost metro like in terms of service, but what about the rest of the route?

I do wonder how noisy entering the Elstree tunnel will be at 100mph..

 

[klewer]

I know that Siemens has proposed a design with sliding doors. What about the Bombardier design? Have they chosen sliding or plug?

I personally think that sliding doors have no place on a longer distance route. I realise the core is almost metro like in terms of service, but what about the rest of the route?

I do wonder how noisy entering the Elstree tunnel will be at 100mph..

Sliding doors will be needed as they're quicker to open/close than Plug doors - a must have for these units as loading/unloading times are of paramount importance. Sliding door technology has moved on a great deal since the 317-321's were made (The 395's use them for instance) so I can't imagine they'll be rattly..

 

[Fincra5]

No but I still find them a lot louder in tunnel etc. Plug doors hardly take that long to open anyway, plus plug doors give a smoother exterior thus reducing drag.

 

[Fred26]

Are plug doors the doors on the 365s?

 

[Mike395]

Are plug doors the doors on the 365s?

Yeah (basically, plug doors are any that have to come towards you slightly before they can open i.e. being flush with the side of the train when closed)

 

[Fred26]

I'm not a fan of plug doors, then.

 

[LexyBoy]

I know that Siemens has proposed a design with sliding doors. What about the Bombardier design? Have they chosen sliding or plug?

Doesn't the 378 have a lot of features that Bombardier will be bringing to their new generation of EMUs? The sliding doors on those seem perfectly solid (though they are of course brand new!). Personally I think sliding doors spoil the appearance of a train (especially a supposedly "sleek" train like the 395!), but obviously this doesn't matter for operation.

What about the commuters on the GWML who, excited by all the talk of "new carriages" on their service, turn up to find their Turbos replaced with 319s! hock:

 

[swt_passenger]

395s have sliding doors - no one seems to have complained about them yet at 125 mph and over.

 

[Pumbaa]

395s have sliding doors - no one seems to have complained about them yet at 125 mph and over.

Internally hung plug doors is what they are as the train moves off, the door is pressed against the seal to plug them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And yes, plug doors over sliding doors for NXEMU. I realise there are issues with some plug doors, but it can be done. The plug doors on Bombardier 377s etc work quickly, compared to the Siemens v1 Desiro. I have not yet seen the 380s doors at work.

 

[MCR247]

Internally hung plug doors is what they are as the train moves off, the door is pressed against the seal to plug them.

Thought they weren't normal sliding doors

 

[swt_passenger]

Thought they weren't normal sliding doors

I thought the door slides and is then locked against the inside of the bodywork against a seal?

I found this description - they seem to think it isn't a sliding plug:

"Attention to reliability and quality of door system is achieved by using pneumatic sliding doors that retract into carbody door pockets. The construction of a pneumatic sliding door is very simple, when compared with a sliding plug door. The pneumatic sliding doors slide on the door rail by only pressurised air. This creates a simple linear motion and reduces the number of components required to operate the doors, especially when compared to sliding plug doors and therefore reduces the number of possible fault scenarios."

"When the unit is in motion, the external door system provides an air tight seal to the carbody. The air tight seal is achieved by pressing the external door against the carbody at four positions by a simple actuator and linkage mechanism."

http://www.railwaypeople.com/rail-news-articles/hitachi-class-395-an-update-1586.html

 

[asylumxl]

Doesn't the 378 have a lot of features that Bombardier will be bringing to their new generation of EMUs? The sliding doors on those seem perfectly solid (though they are of course brand new!)

But I can't think of anywhere they'd reach 100mph. If they put 378s on BDM to BTN services, I will personally karate chop them.

 

[Class377/5]

I know that Siemens has proposed a design with sliding doors. What about the Bombardier design? Have they chosen sliding or plug?

I personally think that sliding doors have no place on a longer distance route. I realise the core is almost metro like in terms of service, but what about the rest of the route?

I do wonder how noisy entering the Elstree tunnel will be at 100mph..

Both designs from Bombardier and Siemens can have either types of doors. Tho visuals produced (suggesting Thameslink order) from both companies show sliding doors.

 

[asylumxl]

Both designs from Bombardier and Siemens can have either types of doors. Tho visuals produced (suggesting Thameslink order) from both companies show sliding doors.

Wouldn't suprise me if the DfT chose sliding doors. They seem to forget theres another 50 miles of track each side of the TL core.

I imagine on TL North EMT might see even heavier loadings..

 

[Daimler]

Wouldn't suprise me if the DfT chose sliding doors. They seem to forget theres another 50 miles of track each side of the TL core.

I imagine on TL North EMT might see even heavier loadings..

It would appear that this is the way things are moving - designing the train to fit the shortest distance journeys on which it operates (see the S8 stock for the Metropolitan Line, 378s on Overground, and even to a certain extent 185s on Manchester-Scotland trains - despite my general liking of them, doors at 1/3 and 2/3 really aren't appropriate for this run).

 

[starrymarkb]

It would appear that this is the way things are moving - designing the train to fit the shortest distance journeys on which it operates (see the S8 stock for the Metropolitan Line, 378s on Overground, and even to a certain extent 185s on Manchester-Scotland trains - despite my general liking of them, doors at 1/3 and 2/3 really aren't appropriate for this run).

Though to be fair the 185s wern't intended for manchester to scotland.

In a lot of cases designs involve compromise. End doors may improve the internal environment for long haul passengers but may slow boarding in situations where you have lots of passengers entering or leaving the train at each stop

 

[jon0844]

Why not just build the trains like the Circle and Met line trains where the doors can be opened before the train has come to a full stop?

That solves part of the problem with dwell times, even if I am sure HSE would go mental!

 

[asylumxl]

I don't mind 1/4 and 3/4 length doors, provided they have a good seal and the train has a reasonable amount of sound deadening.

Basic sliding doors on longer distance stock is pure evil though.

Why not just build the trains like the Circle and Met line trains where the doors can be opened before the train has come to a full stop?

That solves part of the problem with dwell times, even if I am sure HSE would go mental!

Or just end the obsession with trying to cut journey times, and concentrate on running a reliable, good quality service..

 

[swt_passenger]

Both designs from Bombardier and Siemens can have either types of doors. Tho visuals produced (suggesting Thameslink order) from both companies show sliding doors.

IIRC the thing that is specified in the ITT is the overall dwell time. How the train meets that is up to the builder, so I expect pocketed doors are more likely, but as you say not fixed by DfT.

 

[asylumxl]

It all seems so absurd. Metro style slidings doors just to reduce dwell time by a few seconds on a 102 mile route?

The DfTs management salaries must pay for some extremely potent drugs.

 

[jopsuk]

Low dwell times isn't to save time overall on the route- it is so that the high frequency can be achieved through the core.

 

[jon0844]

If there's a hybrid design that has the best of both worlds, what's the problem?

One problem I have with sliding doors is that they very quickly become very dirty on the inside, or even damaged through scraping (look at tube trains) but regular maintenance can fix that.

I use 317s that are noisy when a train goes by, but that's only really when it gets to venture out onto the fast lines - which for most of my trips isn't the case. Some people will naturally think the problem is far worse, if they're on a 317 shooting up the ECML on the down fast to Peterborough.

Given that 317s have no air con and therefore often have windows open, there's a far bigger noise/draught problem from that than the doors.

 

[MCR247]

Why not just build the trains like the Circle and Met line trains where the doors can be opened before the train has come to a full stop?

That solves part of the problem with dwell times, even if I am sure HSE would go mental!

This happens on the Berlin S-Bahn. You are able to press the button to open the doors before the train stops (<10mph ish) and the doors start opening, but to get out before the train has stopped would take some skill! Even if you did, it would only be doing about 1/2mph

These trains were made by Bombardier IIRC so....

 

[Via Bank]

The trouble is, opening doors before the train stops is fine and dandy at a terminus, since the platform is clear and you can just jump off and head towards the ticket gates.

If it's a through station, on the other hand, you stand the chance of running into obstacles or people that are too close to the platform edge.

 

[MCR247]

Not if it uses sliding doors

 

[Skimble19]

What about the commuters on the GWML who, excited by all the talk of "new carriages" on their service, turn up to find their Turbos replaced with 319s! hock:

Ahh yes, but they are going to be heavily refurbished after leaving FCC, including (supposedly) air-con, and completely new interiors.. so they won't be much worse off!

 

[LexyBoy]

Ahh yes, but they are going to be heavily refurbished after leaving FCC, including (supposedly) air-con, and completely new interiors.. so they won't be much worse off!

Yes, so I hear... let's wait and see! I was however referring to the sliding doors which make a right racket when passing something on London suburban lines, interesting to see what they're like on the GWML! Also they do look rather... Soviet

 

[bengley]

Plug doors, when done correctly, are just as fast as sliding, if not faster (see class 165, 365)

 

[ChrisCooper]

Light Rail systems nearly all use plug doors, and even a lot of buses have plug doors for the centre door, so they can't be that slow.