Northumberland Line: could capacity be increased?

[androdas]

Probably helps that they're very likely going to be doubled up tomorrow aswell with the Newsham opening, so just sorted them out early.

I'd imagine there'd be huge capacity issues otherwise.

Looks like its 2 car class 158s for the Newsham opening according to RTT. Might be a bit quieter than a usual Monday given the events in West London last night. (Newcastle won the Carabao Cup if you are not aware and the roads this morning into Newcastle were noticeably quieter)

 

[hacman]

To me, Electric to at least MetroCentre but possibly Hexham would be the target, with batteries then beyond and the unit can Top Up in the bay at Carlisle. OLE as far as Ashington would be nice, but might not need to be all the way with a BEMU. Although going all the way to Morpeth is only going to make sense if the line is in passenger service
AIUI the Sunderland line has some level of provision for future conversion to 25KV, although it's not 25KV-ready I don't think. I have no idea if Metro units would need more work to be 25KV compatible, I imagine they'd need something at least.

I wonder what that level of provision is? Correct clearances for all modified structures seems likely? With SFC technology you may be able to re-use the grid connections used for the DC substations. Seems unlikely that they'd do anything else to help a conversion back in 2002.

Yeah i think this is where it all goes wrong. They are not compatible and I don't actually think passive provision was provided, I mean - it's a bit ambiguous whether it was, but you do need a different kind of pantograph for 25kV AC either way. Also, it's kind of a grey area to me whether it's worse having T&W provide bi-modes, or having it on the National Rail side of things.

The class 555s have no inbuilt provision for 25kV AC, as battery was the desired option. That said, Stadler would be able to add an extra car with a second pantograph and the required equipment fairly easily - they're specialists at this.

The passive provision on the Sunderland line for conversion to 25kV AC is very minimal - mostly just structure clearance and mast design.

Running 555s to Ashington wouldn't need wires with the 555's potential battery upgrade capacity, but having some way to charge at the northern terminus would be wise.

To be fair the Class 156's are pretty awful nowadays really. Outdated, noisy and some of them cramped. There's just worse around aka. Class 150's which make them more bearable.

The 156s are no more cramped or outdated than the 158s, especially when refurbished. The noise is about the same externally too, it's just that the 158s are much better insulated and don't rely on opening the windows for cooling the saloon down.

Both are fine for the Northumberland Line until something better is procured, though decisions will need to be made soon about the future. At least we're not still dealing with the 142s, as that certainly wouldn't have helped attract people to the line.

 

[Snex]

The 156s are no more cramped or outdated than the 158s, especially when refurbished. The noise is about the same externally too, it's just that the 158s are much better insulated and don't rely on opening the windows for cooling the saloon down.

Both are fine for the Northumberland Line until something better is procured, though decisions will need to be made soon about the future. At least we're not still dealing with the 142s, as that certainly wouldn't have helped attract people to the line.

Oh not sure I agree there mind. Technically maybe, but the Class 158's feel much more modern from a passenger point of view imo.

They could easily be mistaken for being much newer than they are whereas the Class 156's feels like an 80's train, especially the ones with the exposed lighting.

Just the little things like end doors etc make it feel much more modern and that's before going into the noise of the Class 156's which is borderline unpleasant.

 

[ddavids]

i
I think they will have to use 4 Car sets all the time with new station opening as people will stop using if they are left behind especially on a Sunday with trains only once a hour .Is there case to run half hourly on a Sunday during Peak hours and also running a Later train week days to say 22.45 from Newcastle

 

[hacman]

i
I think they will have to use 4 Car sets all the time with new station opening as people will stop using if they are left behind especially on a Sunday with trains only once a hour .Is there case to run half hourly on a Sunday during Peak hours and also running a Later train week days to say 22.45 from Newcastle

There is absolutely a case for it; the issue is crew and equipment availability.

It is very worrying, though, that this sort of thing could hamper the line's progress - the Combined Authority and others need to be watching this closely and thinking of ideas for how to improve the situation.

 

[Killingworth]

i
I think they will have to use 4 Car sets all the time with new station opening as people will stop using if they are left behind especially on a Sunday with trains only once a hour .Is there case to run half hourly on a Sunday during Peak hours and also running a Later train week days to say 22.45 from Newcastle

Across the Northern network there will be more than one or two stations and lines that would benefit from a half hourly service any day and, currently, a consistent hourly on Sundays. They're rather envious of the Ashington line just now. Having the same service 7 days a week is much easier for users to understand - and use.

Strengthening all trains, economically, to meet short term or irregular peak loadings is a public transport challenge everywhere.

A later train may be the easiest to achieve. The last train of the day may be lightly loaded, but I often caught the second last knowing that if I was delayed I'd catch that later train.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Strengthening all trains, economically, to meet short term or irregular peak loadings is a public transport challenge everywhere.

A similar comment concerning Northern Trains increasing carriages on a number of locations in their very large area network was expressed on another website, which brought about responses to the effect that Northern Trains do not have available extra spare stock to meet such aspirations.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

There is absolutely a case for it; the issue is crew and equipment availability.

It is very worrying, though, that this sort of thing could hamper the line's progress - the Combined Authority and others need to be watching this closely and thinking of ideas for how to improve the situation.

The optics are bad, especially as the project is seriously overrunning. You sometimes only get one chance to make an impression before a negative perception pervades public consciousness.

It is the most populous area of Northumberland that hasn’t had a passenger service in 60 years. Combined with lots of house building in the area, flexible working, free car parking and cheap fares, the demand was always going to be there.

Alas, it has been a huge success and it is fantastic for the area.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yep the concern I had even after day one was finding additional capacity if needed in the future. Northern is stretched in the North East in terms of units. We had a shortage not so long ago that led to a bad spate of cancellations! But there's plenty of demand for the hourly service down the Coast to be 4-car (I've not observed the 2tp2h service enough to know if that also gets overcrowded but I think it doesn't) and now with Ashington's success that will probably need to be 4-car (at least on Sunday's) before too much longer as well.

Northern are in dire need of some more rolling stock in the North East but it's question of where it might come from.

 

[Killingworth]

Yep the concern I had even after day one was finding additional capacity if needed in the future. Northern is stretched in the North East in terms of units. We had a shortage not so long ago that led to a bad spate of cancellations! But there's plenty of demand for the hourly service down the Coast to be 4-car (I've not observed the 2tp2h service enough to know if that also gets overcrowded but I think it doesn't) and now with Ashington's success that will probably need to be 4-car (at least on Sunday's) before too much longer as well.

Northern are in dire need of some more rolling stock in the North East but it's question of where it might come from.

TfW?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

TfW?

Heaven forbid if TfW see this as a way of disposing of the five Class 230 Vivarail units off the Borderlands line..

 

[DM352]

I would rather have some stored 769's as a capacity booster than a 230 but they are not known for speed and then there is the micro fleet issue.

 

[nerdowell]

Extra Capacity for Sunday 13th April

Ahead of the NUFC game against Manchester United on Sunday 13th April, we've got some good news that Northern plan for all trains on the Northumberland Line to have increased capacity of 4 coaches (rather than the usual 2 coaches) on the day.We know that trains have been busy on match days and...

www.northumberlandline.uk

4 Cars looking to be standard on Match Days at least.

 

[Killingworth]

Extra Capacity for Sunday 13th April

Ahead of the NUFC game against Manchester United on Sunday 13th April, we've got some good news that Northern plan for all trains on the Northumberland Line to have increased capacity of 4 coaches (rather than the usual 2 coaches) on the day.We know that trains have been busy on match days and...

www.northumberlandline.uk

4 Cars looking to be standard on Match Days at least.

Although hourly on Sundays. It'll be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow.

 

[Bamford]

So according to Wikipedia TfW have 3 spare 150s and there are 6 156s stored. My understanding is with three diagrams to get all as 4 car you would need 3/4 of these, plus a reshuffle if you wanted 158s for the Northumberland line, apart from the obvious point around cost would there be the space for these at Heaton, or anywhere else in the North East to store these?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So according to Wikipedia TfW have 3 spare 150s and there are 6 156s stored. My understanding is with three diagrams to get all as 4 car you would need 3/4 of these, plus a reshuffle if you wanted 158s for the Northumberland line, apart from the obvious point around cost would there be the space for these at Heaton, or anywhere else in the North East to store these?

Why have not TfW used those "spare" units during the long period where the five ex-Vivarail Class 230 units they bought were causing so many operational problems on the Borderlands line?

 

[Bamford]

Why have not TfW used those "spare" units during the long period where the five ex-Vivarail Class 230 units they bought were causing so many operational problems on the Borderlands line?

I suspect they weren't used as they are only newly spare, with the new trains finally freeing some up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==

Great news as additional capacity appears to be in the works!

Northumberland Line longer trains plan as railway fills up

Despite only half its stations being open, passenger numbers on the new rail route exceed estimates.

www.bbc.co.uk