Northern Rail Fare Dodging

[ianbealeschips]

Hi guys, HELP NEEDED,

It seems a strong theme on these threads, but as my situation is different so I would appreciate some advice and also what I can expect.

Travelling into Manchester Piccadilly from work, didn't have a ticket, when I got to the guy on the door, tried to slip past him with an old ticket. Stupid I know, total error of judgement. Got caught, took my details and told me to expect letter. Said it could be anything from caution to a fine.

Then got home and saw online that they seek criminal prosecution and read some horror stories about actual prosecutions.

I'm absolutely terrified of being prosecuted. I admitted everything to the NR chap, who was v. helpful. He took a statement and also the ticket I'd tried to use.

Ok, give it to me straight, what can I expect. I'm going to write a very grovelling letter back to the one they send me along the lines of "sorry, first ever time doing something, I'm stupid, not going to happen again ... Am happy to pay the fare and any reasonable costs to Northern Rail".

Please help!

 

[ainsworth74]

You've given them, by the sounds of it, an open and shut RoRA S5 prosecution. A successful prosecution would lead to a large fine (I believe it can be anything up to £1000) and also (and perhaps more importantly) a criminal record.

At the appropriate time you can try writing to them, apologising and offering to pay for the fare outstanding and any administration costs they've encountered, but they would certainly not be obliged to agree to an out of court settlement and to be honest if it's as simple to prosecution as it sounds it will be I'm not sure they will accept it.

 

[ianbealeschips]

this is my thinking, I've given them all the ammo.

As soon as he stopped me I co-operated fully, and wanted to do whatever it took to resolve the matter. I feel horrendous but only because it's my fault. does the above resolution have a criminal record? would I have to tell my current employers?

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes it would lead to a criminal record. As to informing your employer's, I can't really advise but I suspect it would depend on your contract and your companies policy.

 

[dave87016]

Dont get why you tried to avoid in first place, I cant show any sympathy im afraid from what you said it sounds like a clear case of intending to travel without buying a ticket

 

[Ferret]

this is my thinking, I've given them all the ammo.

As soon as he stopped me I co-operated fully, and wanted to do whatever it took to resolve the matter. I feel horrendous but only because it's my fault. does the above resolution have a criminal record? would I have to tell my current employers?

That depends on your employment contract I would say. Certainly it appears in my employment contract that I must disclose any impending prosecution. Of course, you may have to ask for a day off to attend Court, and furthermore, you may find yourself being reported in the local press.

I agree that it seems to be a very simple RoR Act s.5 prosecution, but Northern may also prosecute under Byelaw 18. You can expect a letter entitled 'Notice of Intention to Prosecute' in due course, and from that, we should be able to deduce exactly what Northern intend to do.

For clarity, the Regulation of Railways Act offence requires intent to avoid your fare to be proved, and results in a criminal record. If it's a Byelaw 18 prosecution of failing to show a valid ticket, then no intent needs to be proved, and should not result in a criminal record.

Hope this helps you to understand what you're up against.

 

[ianbealeschips]

what are the chances of them settling?

 

[dave87016]

IMO as its a clear case of intent to avoid paying fare I would say clearly a open/shut case im afraid and I would be surprised if they settled

 

[ianbealeschips]

i mean, i hear what you are all saying. it's very open and shut. I can only think that it's my first ever time of anything like this, I'm trying to co-operate fully.

 

[Ferret]

what are the chances of them settling?

It's entirely at their discretion. I'd say that it's in your interests to try anyway, as having given them all that ammunition, it'll be quite difficult to further incriminate yourself! The fact of the matter is though, that they can easily win this case - which may influence their decision over whether to prosecute or not. If you've no 'previous' PFs or history of fare evasion, that would go in your favour.

 

[BrownE]

You can expect a letter entitled 'Notice of Intention to Prosecute' in due course, and from that, we should be able to deduce exactly what Northern intend to do.

Many TOCs when writing for 'Your version of events' will actually not explain which offence they intend to prosecute you under as they reserve the right to decide at a later date.

A simple "Railway Bye laws and RoRA apply" is included.

 

[ianbealeschips]

If you've no 'previous' PFs or history of fare evasion, that would go in your favour.

wow, a glimmer (very small glimmer) of hope. I mean, the waiting is going to kill me. I've made a stupid error, if I plead guilty in court what effect would that have on the sentence?

Question, are all these first letters from northern the same? are some just fines there and then? or are all of them intent to prosecute.

 

[ainsworth74]

what are the chances of them settling?

As Ferret says it's up to them. You've almost certainly made it easy for them so they might decide to simply go through with the prosecution as they'd have an almost guaranteed win. On the other hand if you do indeed have no previous history they might consider leniency. Not working for Northern's prosecutions department we can't know for sure.

 

[Ferret]

wow, a glimmer (very small glimmer) of hope. I mean, the waiting is going to kill me. I've made a stupid error, if I plead guilty in court what effect would that have on the sentence?

Question, are all these first letters from northern the same? are some just fines there and then? or are all of them intent to prosecute.

I'm not sure - BrownE's point above is entirely correct and I'm not sure what Northern's say, never having seen one.

 

[Monty]

As ainsworth74 has pointed out this looks like a very straight forward 5 3a prosecution. If you are given the opportunity to settle out of court I strongly advise you take it.

Sometime in the near future Northern Rail will likely contact you about incident inquestion and ask you for your version of events. I would'nt deviate to much away from what you told the RPI (ticket inspector), admit you were at fault and apologise profusively. Request that to them that you wish to keep the matter out of court, be prepared to have to pay a reasonably large sum of money. I would strongly advise you to seek legal advice and perhaps even a solicitor to represent you on your behalf.

Other members such as Ferret and RJ maybe able to offer more advice than I. This is a bit of a cold comfort I know, however I do hope I've been able to provide you with some useful infomation. Don't stress over it too much though or you'll make yourself ill with worry.

Edit: Ferret you beat me to it! :P

 

[yorkie]

are some just fines there and then? or are all of them intent to prosecute.

Only a court can impose a fine for this offence. There is no Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) or on-the-spot caution like for other offences such as speeding. What you did is, in the eyes of the law, considered far more serious than most motoring offences for example, or even shoplifting.

If you write a good enough letter offering to settle out of court, you may get lucky. In fact, so far only one person has come back to us to report that the TOC concerned (FCC in their case) would not settle out of court. But each case is different, and in your case given the evidence they have, and given that you have admitted the offence, then I expect they may want a tidy sum to settle out of court. But it's a matter between you and them, and there's no way we can give predictions or anything like that.

If found guilty, the offence would appear on any future CRB check. Whether this matters or not depends on your job.

I am sorry that, although your opening like says "Help needed" there really isn't any help we can provide.

Feel free to browse the forum for previous threads for tips on what to include and what not to include in your letter, but really it needs to be your letter and in your own words.

 

[34D]

There is a thread on here entitled "successful prosecution stories" which I recommend you read.

 

[dave87016]

He doesnt want to be sucessfully prosecuted !!!!

 

[Ferret]

He doesnt want to be sucessfully prosecuted !!!!

Congratulations on one of the funniest posts ever to appear in a prosecutions thread!

Seriously though, I'd suggest following Yorkie's advice and reading up on previous threads to see how to go about attempting to settle out of Court. It's pretty obvious though to say that any letter should include an apology, and to say that you won't do it again! Aside from that, we've provided all the help and assistance we can in this case I think.