Northern contradiction

[joke2711]

Hi - I read so many stories on here about passengers being caught without a ticket and the fact that if caught by revenue inspectors they are likely to be issued with a FPN.

This evening I travelled from Hindley to Manor Road, routed via Southport. At Hindley Station which is unmanned and no TVM it states on their poster at the entrance to the station the following.

"Passengers must buy a ticket before travelling from the Ticket Office of TVM when open. If a passenger chooses to board the train then the guard will issue a ticket to the cost of a Anytime Single for their Journey".

It does not state that it is an offence to travel without a ticket.
It confirms that a passenger can board the train but will not be able to buy a discounted ticket.

Interested to know whether this is acceptable in Northern land and also has anyone experienced a problem with Revenue when boarding from this station without a ticket.

Puzzled!

 

[bb21]

Plenty of discussion on this board with no consensus previously with regard to a TPE poster.

Essentially one school of thought is that it means you can only "be sold an undiscounted fare", hence offers immunity against prosecution, while the other is that it means you can only be sold "an undiscounted fare". The latter believe that it does not overwrite any relevant legislation so you will still be liable for prosecution under them and ignorance of the law is not an excuse not to buy a ticket where opportunities exist.

In this case, it will be the same. One camp will probably argue that it is contradictory if you end up getting prosecuted, while the other will probably argue that there is nothing to suggest you cannot be prosecuted by RPIs.

Take your pick.

 

[maniacmartin]

The poster may only be intended to apply to passengers boarding at stations such as Hindley, where no ticket purchasing opportunities exist.

 

[6Gman]

The poster may only be intended to apply to passengers boarding at stations such as Hindley, where no ticket purchasing opportunities exist.

That would be even worse! Since, if you board at a station without ticket-issuing facilities, you should be allowed access to the full range of ticketing.

 

[185]

The poster may only be intended to apply to passengers boarding at stations such as Hindley, where no ticket purchasing opportunities exist.

I'm sure Hindley does have a part-time booking office, albeit irrelevant to travellers on Afternoon/Evenings, Sunday or Bank Holiday. There is no TVM there.

The wording of the poster should be changed to reflect a "when open" clause. Employing someone with a basic understanding of clear passenger information would be a good start for Now'then Rail's publicity unit.

 

[joke2711]

I'm sure Hindley does have a part-time booking office, albeit irrelevant to travellers on Afternoon/Evenings, Sunday or Bank Holiday. There is no TVM there.

The wording of the poster should be changed to reflect a "when open" clause. Employing someone with a basic understanding of clear passenger information would be a good start for Now'then Rail's publicity unit.

It does quote when open, however what I find bemusing is that is states that even if the ticket office is open you can buy from the guard on the train at the full cost. It doesn't state that if the ticket office is open, you maybe at risk of revenue intervention without a valid ticket, nor does it say it is an offence to travel without a ticket.

they need to get their act together!!

 

[DownSouth]

The question that needs to be asked is: who stands to gain from these signs which perpetuate ambiguity and confusion?

If the answer is Northern (or FTPE) then that gives you an answer as to why they are still there.

If the answer is 'nobody' or someone other than Northern/FTPE then you would expect that the signs would have been removed years ago or never posted in the first place.

Companies are not people. They have no conscience and no understanding of morality, only of profit and loss, and therefore the only way to force them to abandon an immoral practice is to make it unprofitable for them. How this can be accomplished in the British semi-private rail industry where it's neither a proper public system (where politicians can be threatened with the ballot box if they don't fix it) or a proper private system (where the company can go bust if they alienate their clientele) is the difficult question though.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If it is the poster I think it is, it is a generic poster with some station specific information added by way of a sticker (IIRC it's things like ticket office times, disabled access, etc).

It does seem a little confusing in some places, but bear in mind that where no facilities exist it is not a passengers choice to buy on board, thus you can buy the cheapest available through ticket that's valid for the journey (or some some other valid ticket if you prefer) from the guard.

Also, and congratulations to the op here, most people won't bother reading them anyway!