Northern - 24 December - "Expect disruption"

[Raymundo]

Does anyone have any idea what "expect disruption" on 24 December will actually mean?
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/christmas-engineering

If you're planning to take the train over the Christmas and New Year period, please plan ahead and check before you travel - disruption is expected.

There will be changes to train services across the rail network over the holiday season, with disruption on some days.

Plan your journeys ahead of time using journey planners at www.nationalrail.co.uk or via Northern.

For on-the-day info, you can find route-specific information by using the Journey Check tool, or our live service updates page.

Amended Sunday Timetable - From 22 December 2024
Sundays in the North West
From Sunday, 22nd December, Northern will introduce an amended timetable in the North West due to conductor availability. This timetable is designed to provide more certainty about the services that will run and reduce short-notice cancellations.

Sundays in North East and Yorkshire & Humber
A short-term timetable will be in place for Sunday, 22nd December, and Sunday, 29th December (ONLY), due to train crew availability and engineering works. This timetable aims to give passengers more certainty about services and minimise last-minute cancellations.

I appreciate that train services always finish early on Christmas Eve but any idea of the level of cancellations and whether these will mainly be confirmed the night before or last minute?

 

[43066]

Does anyone have any idea what "expect disruption" on 24 December will actually mean?: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/christmas-engineering
I appreciate that train services always finish early on Christmas Eve but any idea of the level of cancellations and whether these will mainly be confirmed the night before or last minute?

No doubt very, very few rest day workers will be available, certainly far fewer than a normal Tuesday, combined with the usual early shutdown.

Unfortunately that’ll likely mean they won’t know exactly which services they will cancel until fairly short notice beforehand, as they’ll be ringing around trying to get volunteers, cross covering jobs between depots where they can etc.

 

[Tracked]

Does anyone have any idea what "expect disruption" on 24 December will actually mean?: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/christmas-engineering
I appreciate that train services always finish early on Christmas Eve but any idea of the level of cancellations and whether these will mainly be confirmed the night before or last minute?

Normal Service?

 

[duffield]

Based on the precedent at some weekends, I wouldn't bet against "expect disruption" changing to "do not travel"; probably a good idea to have a "Plan B" if travelling with Northern on the 24th.

 

[MDB1images]

Is t(for example)the 31st Dec classed the same as a Sunday in the terms and conditions for Northern Conds?
Might explain some non Sunday dates expecting issues.

 

[skyhigh]

Is t(for example)the 31st Dec classed the same as a Sunday in the terms and conditions for Northern Conds?

No.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Does anyone have any idea what "expect disruption" on 24 December will actually mean?: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/christmas-engineering

There's a clue in there in that this refers to known disruption due to engineering works.

However, as others have pointed out, what they can still run outside of the engineering work will no doubt be subject to 'short notice changes to the timetable', where trains mysteriously disappear entirely from the schedule, and others will be cancelled on the day, sometimes at very short notice.

Travelling with Northern on any day nowadays, especially on the west side, is an adventure sport worthy of Olympic status.

 

[BPN2022]

It’s just a Tuesday, why would it be bad from a traincrew shortage? Unless they have given too many people annual leave.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It’s just a Tuesday, why would it be bad from a traincrew shortage? Unless they have given too many people annual leave.

Because they don't employ enough conductors and so rely heavily on rest-day working. Even a normal weekday sees a load of cancellations due to "a member of traincrew being unavailable", nobody in their right mind is going to volunteer to give up a rest day and go to work on Christmas Eve in Northern land.

 

[43066]

It’s just a Tuesday, why would it be bad from a traincrew shortage? Unless they have given too many people annual leave.

It’s Christmas Eve, not “just a Tuesday”.

Many working on that day will finish early, and people will often be travelling to wherever they need to be on Christmas Day itself.

 

[Krokodil]

It’s just a Tuesday, why would it be bad from a traincrew shortage?

Same reason that Northern have cancellations on any given day of the week. Except that it'll be worse because even the ones who do usually volunteer for overtime might opt not to.

 

[Rail Ranger]

It’s Christmas Eve, not “just a Tuesday”.

Many working on that day will finish early, and people will often be travelling to wherever they need to be on Christmas Day itself.

Not if they haven't got a car, they won't!

 

[Exiled Lanc]

Unfortunately that’ll likely mean they won’t know exactly which services they will cancel until fairly short notice beforehand, as they’ll be ringing around trying to get volunteers, cross covering jobs between depots where they can etc.

They are not allowed to ring around to try to get volunteers under the terms of the rest day work agreement.

A driver is required to give five days notice of their availability.

 

[175001]

They are not allowed to ring around to try to get volunteers under the terms of the rest day work agreement.

A driver is required to give five days notice of their availability.

There's no shortage of drivers at the moment, it's conductors.

 

[high camera]

I have spent my entire working live working for the Queen and country and more recently self employed. I have worked weekends & nights and all manner of un-social hrs (and still do). It really makes me angry when I hear you rail workers moaning about pay and conditions and not being allowed to be contacted at home etc, etc . You don’t know how lucky you are.

Happy Xmas by the way

 

[high camera]

Not Jealous in any way, I obviously have a different work ethic, I have always put others before myself (to the extreme in many cases) and as a result have had a very rewarding life both financially and morally. I see the railways as a chaotic mess driven by corporate greed v unions. I would be ashamed to be part of an industry that leaves thousands of people stranded at the drop of a hat. For now I have the right to vent my opinion as I am a regular user/victim of UK railways especially in the under invested north. I base my observations on my worldwide travels and use of decent rail systems. Have you travelled on Japanese railways recently ? Staff there serve the state and the public not the other way round !

 

[Rail Ranger]

Where is the like button!

 

[weastebusdepot]

Where is the like button!

Right next to the knighthood nomination button!

 

[sportzbar]

Not Jealous in any way, I obviously have a different work ethic, I have always put others before myself (to the extreme in many cases) and as a result have had a very rewarding life both financially and morally. I see the railways as a chaotic mess driven by corporate greed v unions. I would be ashamed to be part of an industry that leaves thousands of people stranded at the drop of a hat. For now I have the right to vent my opinion as I am a regular user/victim of UK railways especially in the under invested north. I base my observations on my worldwide travels and use of decent rail systems. Have you travelled on Japanese railways recently ? Staff there serve the state and the public not the other way round !

Not Jealous in any way, I obviously have a different work ethic, I have always put others before myself (to the extreme in many cases) and as a result have had a very rewarding life both financially and morally. I see the railways as a chaotic mess driven by corporate greed v unions. I would be ashamed to be part of an industry that leaves thousands of people stranded at the drop of a hat. For now I have the right to vent my opinion as I am a regular user/victim of UK railways especially in the under invested north. I base my observations on my worldwide travels and use of decent rail systems. Have you travelled on Japanese railways recently ? Staff there serve the state and the public not the other way round !

The problem is you are aiming your anger at the wrong people. You are falling for the media narrative that it's all about "greedy train drivers". Have you ever worked in the industry to see it from our side or are you just not prepared to see there are actually two sides to every story. We are sick and tired of the industry being the way it is too. But you won't see that because you don't experience it from the other side of the coin. In the meantime the real people responsible, sit back and enjoy not being blamed.....

 

[Peterthegreat]

The problem is you are aiming your anger at the wrong people. You are falling for the media narrative that it's all about "greedy train drivers". Have you ever worked in the industry to see it from our side or are you just not prepared to see there are actually two sides to every story. We are sick and tired of the industry being the way it is too. But you won't see that because you don't experience it from the other side of the coin. In the meantime the real people responsible, sit back and enjoy not being blamed.....

Absolutely. The real blame rests with Queen/King and Country in the form of HMG who have repeatedly put idealogy in front of serving the public.

 

[Krokodil]

I have spent my entire working live working for the Queen and country and more recently self employed. I have worked weekends & nights and all manner of un-social hrs (and still do). It really makes me angry when I hear you rail workers moaning about pay and conditions and not being allowed to be contacted at home etc, etc . You don’t know how lucky you are.

Happy Xmas by the way

I often go above and beyond. The other day I came in three hours early at short notice. But of course what comes around goes around and I got off early too.

However at an operator like Northern, relations are strained, morale is down, and people aren’t going to be willing to help out for an employer they feel no loyalty to.

 

[Rail Ranger]

And the travelling public, many of whom have no alternative, can go hang?

 

[weastebusdepot]

Someone told me the other day when they get asked why there aren't enough train crew to run the trains, their answer is "They all left because they didn't like getting shouted at by passengers". That usually shuts them up. Think I'll try that response in future!

 

[high camera]

Sportzs bar
If you read my last post you will see I mention corporate greed, so I’m well aware of the bigger picture. I am also very well connected to people in the industry. I am also very aware that the majority of staff want a system that works as it frustrates them too. However there comes a point when endless disagreements between poor management and restrictive work practises has to change.

Weastebusdepot I’m more than happy to receive a Knighthood !!