New Year Fare Rises

[MidnightFlyer]

Apparently, ticket prices could rise up to 8% for commuters from next year:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10982871

Strangely enough, the Sky News Channel said it would only go up 6%!

 

[43167]

They always make it sound like its they will go up loads. But in the end its just afew pounds. Typical Media.

 

[swt_passenger]

Apparently, ticket prices could rise up to 8% for commuters from next year:

Phew, so it's only commuters, not all passengers...

(Annoys me that the modern media nearly always use 'commuter' when they really mean passenger...)

 

[wibble]

The 'up to 8%' figure is probably referring to Southeastern who can increase regulated fares by RPI+3%.

Don't forget that Off Peak fares are unregulated shorter distance journeys so could see a larger percentage increase (I think it's RPI+5%)

 

[John @ home]

Don't forget that Off Peak fares are unregulated shorter distance journeys so could see a larger percentage increase (I think it's RPI+5%)

I think you've got this the wrong way round. Did you mean to say that Off-Peak Day fares are unregulated?

Off-Peak Returns are regulated where the corresponding Saver Return existed in, IIRC, 2003.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Regulated and unregulated fares are yet another aspect of the 'dogs dinner' which is rail privatisation.

Either have all fares regulated or no fares regulated.
None of this politically meddlesome and arbitary list of regulated fares.

My preference is that no fares should be regulated. Then watch the public scream at the TOCs when they put fares up by 20% overnight. And embarrased faces at the DfT trying to explain the mess.

 

[John @ home]

My preference is that no fares should be regulated. Then watch the public scream at the TOCs when they put fares up by 20% overnight. And embarrassed faces at the DfT trying to explain the mess.

Why is this your preference?

 

[shinkansen1966]

Why is this your preference?

Because TOCs should be trusted to make sensible decisions on fares policies.

 

[brad465]

Train tickets always seem low in the south east, even after inflation, but are large in comparison of season ticket price rises

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Train tickets always seem low in the south east, even after inflation, but are large in comparison of season ticket price rises

Except for those who commuting station is on the HS1

 

[yorksrob]

Train tickets always seem low in the south east, even after inflation, but are large in comparison of season ticket price rises

They seem expensive to me - compared to South Central at least. Probably because there isn't any opportunity for AP.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Trouble is, commuters, say, Tring to Euston or Burnham to Paddington:

• Cycling would take ages and knacker you out;
• Cars would be subject to a) the Congestion Charge, and b) extortionate car parking fares in cities;
• Buses can't run over 30 miles under EU law (lucky us), and can be really slow in peak times;
  
  So really, trains are the only logical, straightforward way from the Home Counties to Central London (except for the Tube if you live on the London side )

 

[swt_passenger]

The 'up to 8%' figure is probably referring to Southeastern who can increase regulated fares by RPI+3%.

Don't forget that Off Peak fares are unregulated shorter distance journeys so could see a larger percentage increase (I think it's RPI+5%)

The 8% figure varies in different media reports - some refer to it being Southeastern in particular, others just use the old 'if they are allowed to go up by more than RPI+1 it could be up to 8%'.

The fact that nearly all the papers use the same figures, and many quote the same Brighton annual season, suggests they're all singing from the same hymn sheet - I wonder who issued the press release?

On regulation though, you're possibly thinking of the shorter CDRs that became Offpeak. The other 'Offpeak' fares, the old longer distance Savers, are also regulated fares in large parts of the country.

Generalising about which fares are regulated and which aren't is a minefield, and it varies across the country.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Train tickets always seem low in the south east, even after inflation, but are large in comparison of season ticket price rises

An annual season ticket holder from Southampton to Waterloo pays around £20 a day, compared to an Anytime fare of about £50. I was amazed a couple of years ago to find when I needed to make just two peak trips to London in one week, a 7 day season was cheaper...

That poor old Brighton commuter's rise of £216 (that all the papers are quoting) isn't going to bankrupt anyone, it's only about £1 per day assuming they never travel at weekends and have a few weeks holiday. I'd suggest the annual price is still quite a bargain when calculated on a daily basis, and compared to other options for daily travel from Brighton to London...

 

[Deerfold]

• Buses can't run over 30 miles under EU law (lucky us), and can be really slow in peak times;

They *can* but they're subject to rather more rules and regulations - tighter rules on drivers' hours, they have to have a tachyometer fitted which increase costs for companies.

Indeed there's one from Burnham to London which I have caught - http://armchair.co.uk/commuter.html

 

[First class]

I don't think we'll see the fare rises people are expecting- at least not in the normal way.

From what I've heard a lot of TOCs will be axing Off peak day singles/returns.

Examples: Liverpool-Manchester CDR is £9.90. If TPE axed the CDR, then people get the SDR which costs £14.00. This isn't actually classed as a 'fare rise'.

 

[John @ home]

Examples: Liverpool-Manchester CDR is £9.90. If TPE axed the CDR, then people get the SDR which costs £14.00. This isn't actually classed as a 'fare rise'.

I think you'll find this would be classed as a 'fare rise' by the passengers. The passengers are the voters, so these are the most important people.

 

[455driver]

Because TOCs should be trusted to make sensible decisions on fares policies.

That is all I can say.

 

[Invincibles]

Can CDR really just be scrapped?

Where have they disappeared from before?

I use Manchester - Preston a lot and would be somewhat annoyed to suffer a near 50% rise in the cost of travel (yes it is only 40ish but its not hard to sensationalise to 50)

 

[First class]

Can CDR really just be scrapped?

Where have they disappeared from before?

I use Manchester - Preston a lot and would be somewhat annoyed to suffer a near 50% rise in the cost of travel (yes it is only 40ish but its not hard to sensationalise to 50)

Merseyrail axed most of theirs 2 years ago.

 

[jon0844]

The problem with the ability to increase fares by 6, 7 or 8% (or whatever) is that it gets compounded and becomes a much larger increase every year.

It's seems to me to be an unfair system, as that seemingly small increase gets massive. Within about ten years, it will be double! I am pretty sure salaries wouldn't have kept up.

Example based on a £2,500 annual season ticket:
£2500.00 + 8% = £200 more
£2700.00 + 8% = £216 more
£2916.00 + 8% = £233.28 more
£3149.28 + 8% = £251.94 more
£3401.22 + 8% = £272.10 more
£3673.32 + 8% = £293.87 more
£3967.19 + 8% = £317.37 more
£4284.56 + 8% = £342.77 more
£4627.33 + 8% = £370.18 more
£4997.51 + 8% = £399.80 more
£5397.31 + 8% = £431.80 more
£5829.10 + 8% = £466.32 more
£6295.42 + 8% = £503.64 more
£6799.06 + 8% = £543.92 more
£7342.98... this could go on forever!

 

[swt_passenger]

Can CDR really just be scrapped?

Where have they disappeared from before?

Paper CDRs were done away with for journeys wholly within the London Zones with Oysterization in January - basically as a means of persuading everyone onto PAYG.

But I'd be very surprised if it was being thought about nationally, despite suggestions in earlier posts.

 

[yorkie]

CDRs have been abolished on various routes in recent years, e.g. under Central Trains the CDR from e.g. Leicester to Peterborough was withdrawn, this means passengers need to split at somewhere like Melton Mowbray to avoid being ripped-off.

There is evidence of EMT increasing the CDR by around 25% in September and introducing a Super Off Peak Day at roughly the price of the old CDR, e.g. look up Stockport to Nottingham for next month....

 

[paul1609]

CDRs have been abolished on various routes in recent years, e.g. under Central Trains the CDR from e.g. Leicester to Peterborough was withdrawn, this means passengers need to split at somewhere like Melton Mowbray to avoid being ripped-off.

There is evidence of EMT increasing the CDR by around 25% in September and introducing a Super Off Peak Day at roughly the price of the old CDR, e.g. look up Stockport to Nottingham for next month....

This is of course what Stagecoach did to SWT about 4 years ago.

 

[swt_passenger]

This is of course what Stagecoach did to SWT about 4 years ago.

Doesn't time fly? However for accuracy, it was May 2007...

 

[bb21]

CDRs have been abolished on various routes in recent years, e.g. under Central Trains the CDR from e.g. Leicester to Peterborough was withdrawn, this means passengers need to split at somewhere like Melton Mowbray to avoid being ripped-off.

Now that brings back memories. They did that when Arriva Fox County stopped running the 747 through to Peterborough. It used to have quite a few through journeys on that route and instead it became an hourly service terminating short at Uppingham, with 3 connections daily from Billesdon to Peterborough. Conspiracy between CT and Arriva anyone?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is evidence of EMT increasing the CDR by around 25% in September and introducing a Super Off Peak Day at roughly the price of the old CDR, e.g. look up Stockport to Nottingham for next month....

Similar things happened not that long ago with London fares where SVR were increased by mammoth proportions just so that they could introduce SSR at similar prices and claim they lowered prices
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
On the subject of EMT, on top of the increase in AP fares, when Megatrain were first introduced on MML routes, there used to be quite a few fares at £1 for each train (at least three) with a few more fares then at £3 etc. Now on most journeys the first ticket would be £1, then the second would be £5 and the third would be £7. So if you don't get in quick at 5am when the new tickets are released then you'll be stuffed if you're looking for a decent bargain. They've also changed the allocation a bit so now one cannot do a Saturday day return to London on Megatrain as Saturday evening services are no longer available under this brand.

 

[furryfeet]

Can CDR really just be scrapped?

Where have they disappeared from before?

Central Trains scrapped CDR's some years ago, documented in these forums and in the railway press, thus imposing fare rise of up to 170% overnight, since the only "day return" fare left were Saver tickets.

They can be scrapped since they are not protected.

Note also that Daft has made no move to protect them. This next set of fare rises will give an indication of what the coalition has in store for us.

Note also that Arriva XC has done nothing to re-instate the old CDR's from Centrals days.

The other way that Arriva XC and FCC have restricted day returns is to bar them in the evening peak, as again documented in these forums.