New Rail line near Newport

[Dai Corner]

where will the GWR 12 car crowdbusters park up then when awaiting match finishes?(and free platforms) Weren’t they one of bigger reasons behind this stabling line?
I’m going to guess there aren’t many places you can hide a small fleet of 9-12 car trains awaiting a match finish.

On the Down Relief line between Severn Tunnel Junction and Cardiff? That's the only place I can think of that's electrified.

 

[oglord]

On the Down Relief line between Severn Tunnel Junction and Cardiff? That's the only place I can think of that's electrified.

There are various sidings, such as Pengam, the Up/down good siding at Ebbw Junction and Up branch down at East Usk that are electrified too, but how many 387s can they hold?

 

[John R]

The 3 Pengam sidings could each take a 12 car set. You can also hold a train in the Pilning loop. I doubt more than 12 units could be made available, in which case electrified sidings is not a problem.

 

[Woolos 22]

How many spare unit and crewshave they to operate these extra services

 

[Signal_Box]

Options East of Cardiff:

Wentlogg is busy 24/7, and it only has 3 lines anyway. Access from the Cardiff direction is limited due to having to run “wrong road” Up direction, Dn line from Pengam so on a day when you need all your capacity you would sap it using Wentlogg - even if the terminal operator allowed you to.

Pengam, three OHL equipped roads TfW drivers sign it as well as it’s used daily for empty stock shuttles from….Central.
Nice and easy to get to, only 5 minutes travelling time to/from Central. Ideal, but not made use of.

You won’t get access to the tidal yard for passenger stock, and it’s very restricted operationally.

Using the Machen branch - no chance, and no point.

Stabling east of Newport, always been doubtful of the benefit it’s a good 20/25 minute travelling time to start with before you look at the investment for new siding space on Tata land I believe.

Options West of Cardiff:
Barry depot, potentially but has a rather long bothering shunt on and off, one train at a time. Add in 30 minute travelling time makes it less beneficial especially on event days.

Canton depot, perfect? Hmmm, congestion on and off event if you use all four exit/entry points.

Brickyard Sidings, you can stable more than one train in each road but you’ll need to ensure it’s planned perfectly so the right train is at the front of the queue!
Also has potential for at least two additional sidings, there is already one but OOU.

Anything further west is adding cost to travel time and resources.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2023 ==

The 3 Pengam sidings could each take a 12 car set. You can also hold a train in the Pilning loop. I doubt more than 12 units could be made available, in which case electrified sidings is not a problem.

You can’t stable essentially trains in loops, especially Pilning. Freight into the tunnel needs the loop to allow all the extra passenger trains to pass, you also have to take into consideration dangerous goods and prohibited trains before you start holding empty trains in there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2023 ==

There are various sidings, such as Pengam, the Up/down good siding at Ebbw Junction and Up branch down at East Usk that are electrified too, but how many 387s can they hold?

There is the “2 way loop” at AD which is OHL equipped but again freight use it very regularly throughout the day. Often recesses during the event to allow capacity in Cardiff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2023 ==

where will the GWR 12 car crowdbusters park up then when awaiting match finishes?(and free platforms) Weren’t they one of bigger reasons behind this stabling line?
I’m going to guess there aren’t many places you can hide a small fleet of 9-12 car trains awaiting a match finish.

They generally shuttle back and forwards between Cardiff and Newport, then stable on the brickyard siding or line A.

You can’t stable trains on running lines, so there isn’t anywhere between STJ and Newport. You could subject to it not being required by freight operators East Usk Reception 1 / 2.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2023 ==

Even if the new stabling point at Llanwern was built it’s not just two sidings, it’s connection to the Mainline with signalling alternations, lighting, walking routes, access points, staff accommodation, water and electric, gas, sewage points etc, it all adds up to make £10m not forgetting buying the land and making it suitable to build the above.

 

[Dai Corner]

Even if the new stabling point at Llanwern was built it’s not just two sidings, it’s connection to the Mainline with signalling alternations, lighting, walking routes, access points, staff accommodation, water and electric, gas, sewage points etc, it all adds up to make £10m not forgetting buying the land and making it suitable to build the above.

Just for clarification, I understand the £10m is what's been spent already and isn't recoverable rather an estimate of the cost of the project.

 

[Snow1964]

It seems incredible that a city that used to have over 20 miles of coal sidings within 1.5 miles of city centre, cannot find any unused trackbed to lay in some stabling sidings

 

[Western 52]

It seems incredible that a city that used to have over 20 miles of coal sidings within 1.5 miles of city centre, cannot find any unused trackbed to lay in some stabling sidings

Indeed. Surely there's land for sidings on the down side just east of the station? There were still some tracks there until relatively recently.

 

[John R]

Indeed. Surely there's land for sidings on the down side just east of the station? There were still some tracks there until relatively recently.

Agree that seems an obvious location, but given the Pengam sidings are not being used, according to a post above, you’d have a tough job getting the cost approved. Indeed, that’s an argument against any new siding whilst existing capacity is unused.

 

[Dai Corner]

Agree that seems an obvious location, but given the Pengam sidings are not being used, according to a post above, you’d have a tough job getting the cost approved. Indeed, that’s an argument against any new siding whilst existing capacity is unused.

Well, somebody approved the £10m which started the thread .....

 

[John R]

Well, somebody approved the £10m which started the thread .....

Wasn’t there a comment that the proximity of the proposed siding to the CAF works might give a hint as to the real motivation behind the proposal.

 

[Dai Corner]

Wasn’t there a comment that the proximity of the proposed siding to the CAF works might give a hint as to the real motivation behind the proposal.

Yes, from me. I speculated that it would make a useful test track and storage for newly assembled units on the 355 days a year it wasn't being used for its stated purpose. Perhaps a way of getting round the rules on stage aid for CAF?

I'm still struggling to understand how it can cost £10m to decide not to build a siding. No actual construction took place, did it?

 

[Towers]

I'm still struggling to understand how it can cost £10m to decide not to build a siding. No actual construction took place, did it?

Indeed, that does seem an enormous amount. Think how many 20mph road signs they could have manufactured with that! [sorry; humour mode OFF ]

To swing back the 12 car 387 comments, I was under the impression that it had already been asserted thet the current GWR fleet status made the provision of that amount of spare stock rather unlikely anyway?

 

[CardiffKid]

I'm still struggling to understand how it can cost £10m to decide not to build a siding. No actual construction took place, did it?

I don’t know and am only speculating but:

- was any land bought? If so add in legal fees
- how much design work by either civil servants and or transport engineers? £XX ph x by quite a few staff looking at options.
- site surveys etc
- fees to Network Rail to close the mainline for staff to access the proposed site etc

 

[Snow1964]

I don’t know and am only speculating but:

- was any land bought? If so add in legal fees
- how much design work by either civil servants and or transport engineers? £XX ph x by quite a few staff looking at options.
- site surveys etc
- fees to Network Rail to close the mainline for staff to access the proposed site etc

Even if had 25 professionals charging hefty £250 per hour each for a bit of investigation / surveying etc, working for whole month, would only cost £1m

So to spend £10m would need nearer 100 people working 3-4 months at silly money, and nothing actually built, which just doesn't sound realistic to me.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Even if had 25 professionals charging hefty £250 per hour each for a bit of investigation / surveying etc, working for whole month, would only cost £1m

So to spend £10m would need nearer 100 people working 3-4 months at silly money, and nothing actually built, which just doesn't sound realistic to me.

Agreed. I'm guessing there's been some mis-communicaton somewhere, which doesn't exactly fill you with confidence.

 

[Gostav]

Even if had 25 professionals charging hefty £250 per hour each for a bit of investigation / surveying etc, working for whole month, would only cost £1m

So to spend £10m would need nearer 100 people working 3-4 months at silly money, and nothing actually built, which just doesn't sound realistic to me.

It seems typical that some people use their "professional fields" to commit corruption, usually by consulting firms.