New Measuremt Train Pantograph?

[McMetro]

I'm not sure if this has been covered before.

Yesterday I was able to see the New Measurement train at my local station on my daily walk.

Now it was getting dark by this point and I could clearly see a strong blue light coming out the top of one of the MK3s, presumably for catenary checking.

Now, many models represent the coach as having a pantograph and many people say it does have a pantograph.

However, from photos and videos and from when I saw the train, it looks as if there was a place for a pantograph, however it was swapped out for a light-based testingsystem.

Does anybody know anything about this or anything to do with this?

Thank you

 

[Royston Vasey]

I'm not sure if this has been covered before. So yesterday I was able to see the New Measurement train at my local station on my daily walk. Now it was getting dark by this point and I could clearly see a strong blue light coming out the top of one of the MK3s, presumably for catenary checking. Now, many model represent the coach as having a pantograph and many people say it does have a pantograph. However, from photos and videos and from when I saw the train, it looks as if there was a place for a pantograph, however it was swapped out for a light-based testingsystem. Does anybody know anything about this or anything to do with this? Thank you

Looks like you saw the Development Vehicle:

From Wikipedia:

The Development Vehicle (DV) includes a video based system utilising image recognition systems to look for defects such as missing clips. DV also houses a non-contact Over-Head Line monitoring system.This system utilises lasers to measure the position of the OH wires in relationship to the rails the train is on. High powered white lights and cameras also enable the wear of the contact wire to be monitored. The wear on the contact wire is measured as the width of a strip on the underside, where the pantographs of trains come into contact and wear away the cable. If the original thickness of the cable is known, this can be converted into a percentage of remaining area, which in turn when related to a maximum allowable wear can give an estimate of the remaining life left.

 

[tramdan]

Can confirm the NMT definitely doesn't have a pantograph. It uses a contactless system which works pretty much as described on Wikipedia. The only vehicle in the test train fleet that has an actual pantograph is MENTOR, which has an instrumented Brecknell Willis pan.

 

[McMetro]

Thankyou for the help - I wonder why every model made has a pantograph on it? (not my images)

 

[pdeaves]

I don't know the train in great detail but could it be that the vehicle used to have a pantograph but doesn't any more? The train is dynamic and can change as needs and technology require.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Certainly used to have a pantograph but I haven't managed to find a pic of it raised in service!

Found a pic by Andy Royle on the Old Dalby site http://www.old-dalby.com/recent_past.htm albeit on the test track in 2005 rather than out on the network.

http://www.old-dalby.com/images/Stanton.jpg

997993 was the pantograph car but it was removed some years ago now, leaving only optical monitoring equipment in the pantograph well

View from above as it is now, taken at Cambridge (credit: David Beardmore)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/40010413655/

And finally, as it used to be (credit: Geof Sheppard)

IC125@40 - NMT 977993 at Penzance
Geof Sheppard / CC BY-SA (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0)

 

[LOL The Irony]

Why did they remove the pantograph, wouldn't they want to check the draw/current flow?

 

[D365]

Why did they remove the pantograph, wouldn't they want to check the draw/current flow?

AFAIK the pantograph wasn't capable of loading the OLE.

 

[jopsuk]

Why did they remove the pantograph, wouldn't they want to check the draw/current flow?

That would surely require a significant load bank as part of the carriage- if you simply ran a cable down to the axle you'd be shorting the circuit.

 

[sw1ller]

I’ve seen it on the north wales coast so if it does have a pantograph, it doesn’t need it.

 

[fgwrich]

That strong blue light from the Development Vehicle has certainly caused some interesting responses from the public and the media, including this one from a few years ago whereby several conspiracy theories were thought up that week!

UFO SPOTTED in Buckingham and Oxford as 'BLUE EYES' travel across sky

STRANGE blue lights moving through the night sky have been spotted by residents in Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire as some onlookers describe seeing a UFO.

www.express.co.uk

VIDEO: The real reason behind strange 'blue UFO' is revealed

Scroll down to see videos.

www.bucksfreepress.co.uk

(I would put those articles into quotes but the formatting from the Bucks Free Press makes it an absolute mess!).

 

[43096]

I’ve seen it on the north wales coast so if it does have a pantograph, it doesn’t need it.

The NMT did have a pantograph for overhead line condition monitoring, but no longer needs it. It has never used the pantograph to draw current or power anything on the train. Or is that not what you mean?

 

[sw1ller]

The NMT did have a pantograph for overhead line condition monitoring, but no longer needs it. It has never used the pantograph to draw current or power anything on the train. Or is that not what you mean?

I was just stating, as there is confusion as to wether it has a pantograph or not, that as I’ve seen it on a non electrified line, if the train does indeed have the pantograph on it, it doesn’t need it to run.
It came past me one night and I could see it from miles off (not an exaggeration). I thought a new night club had opened in Rhyl! (Years ago in Chester, one of the night clubs had a white strobe it shone into the sky and you could see it from wales) I’d never seen it before. Then I saw it coming towards me. Cool bit of kit to be fair.

 

[OrangeJuice]

The NMT used to have a pantograph, I can't remember the reason why it was used from when I was on board. However when it caused the East Coast wires to come down Network Rail decided to remove it in case that was the cause of the failure as they had to pay a lot of delay minutes for that incident. I was told there was actually nothing wrong with the pantograph and whichever train came at that point would've pulled the wires down as I think they said it was a failed dropper wire or something similar.

Anyway since then NR have decided its not worth the risk and since they have MENTOR they no longer needed the pantograph on the NMT.

 

[Skie]

Why did they remove the pantograph, wouldn't they want to check the draw/current flow?

Modern units are like test trains in a way as they record and log so much information about their power supply and other bits (and in some cases beam it back live to the manufacturer) that having a dedicated train testing it once in a blue moon seems a bit unnecessary.

Useful for commissioning or under a possession but power supply defects will be flagged by modern units fairly quickly. Merseyrail have said this is a feature of the new 777 fleet and will be using it to identify weaker areas of the third rail supply.

 

[edwin_m]

Modern units are like test trains in a way as they record and log so much information about their power supply and other bits (and in some cases beam it back live to the manufacturer) that having a dedicated train testing it once in a blue moon seems a bit unnecessary.

Useful for commissioning or under a possession but power supply defects will be flagged by modern units fairly quickly. Merseyrail have said this is a feature of the new 777 fleet and will be using it to identify weaker areas of the third rail supply.

Some units are fitted with equipment specifically to monitor the infrastructure they run over (or under!), and this augments the data from the dedicated monitoring fleet. In other cases the data the train monitors primarily for its own health can be used to detect infrastructure issues - if there is a process in place to check it!

 

[DarloRich]

There is a pantograph on the NMT. It isn't used, it has never drawn current. I think it was there to help measure the "stagger" on the OHLE and the wire wear. Pics:

Doncaster by DarloRich2009, on Flickr

Derby by DarloRich2009, on Flickr

Modern units are like test trains in a way as they record and log so much information about their power supply and other bits (and in some cases beam it back live to the manufacturer) that having a dedicated train testing it once in a blue moon seems a bit unnecessary.

I wonder how hard it might be to schedule access to all of the network with TOC vehicles

Found a pic by Andy Royle on the Old Dalb

Andy has just published a book about the yellow trains. Worth a look.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm afraid as outlined above, the is is now as was. Pantograph has since been removed, as seen here last year.

977993-DT-11052019-1

Network Rail Mark 3 977993 at Darlington, 11 May 2019.

www.flickr.com

977993 211219

977993 - New Measurement Train Overhead Line Equipment Coach at Doncaster. 21-12-2019 977993 was converted from HST Trailer Guard Second 44053.

www.flickr.com

 

[DarloRich]

I'm afraid as outlined above, the is is now as was. Pantograph has since been removed, as seen here last year.

977993-DT-11052019-1

Network Rail Mark 3 977993 at Darlington, 11 May 2019.

www.flickr.com

977993 211219

977993 - New Measurement Train Overhead Line Equipment Coach at Doncaster. 21-12-2019 977993 was converted from HST Trailer Guard Second 44053.

www.flickr.com

ok. thanks for the clarification - i didn't know it had been taken out. I haven't seen it for a while

 

[DBS92042]

I saw it while out on my daily exercise on the 29th April and for those wondering, that's its current format/look.

 

[fgwrich]

I saw it while out on my daily exercise on the 29th April and for those wondering, that's its current format/look.

Nice shot of the UV light there too!

 

[Nym]

There's also MENTOR at the moment as well with it's HSA pantograph now recording the OLE.