New Double decks on the market

[GusB]

I had moved away from Aberdeen in 1990 and loved riding on the upstairs front seats of the Olympians, and in saying that the Atlanteans that Grampian employed too, I ended up in Kent where Maidstone and District had so many variations of VR's, one of the weirdest were the Willowbrook bodied ones, they also had a couple of Ailsa's which were Scottish stable at one time, I loved M&D's coach bodied Olympians that they used on the Invictaway services and then the 101.

I moved to Aberdeen in 1992 to go to university, and it was almost always an Altantean on the Hillhead (20) service, apart from Sundays when an Olympian would run. I always hoped to get one of the Cummins-powered batch.

The Grampian fleet seemed well turned-out, but that was pre-First and the company was still employee owned. The last 'deckers I travelled on there were X-plate Volvo B7TL/ALX400.

Go Ahead London also had a demonstrator on long term loan, but again, it did not yield any sales. (It then went on loan to Autocar who are not renown for buying new buses). One of the problems is that there is no hybrid version, and all new buses in London tend to be hybrid. The bus is lighter than competitors, so fuel economy should be good - if only they could get a sizeable order (even if the price had to be dropped to secure it).

There is a battery version - maybe they are pinning their hopes on securing London sales of this model.

Their most successful model is the Solo - but this seems to be edged out by the Streetlite - why???

I recall that Reading was doing a trial with the Metrodecker a couple of years ago. Did anything come of that?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I moved to Aberdeen in 1992 to go to university, and it was almost always an Altantean on the Hillhead (20) service, apart from Sundays when an Olympian would run. I always hoped to get one of the Cummins-powered batch.

The Grampian fleet seemed well turned-out, but that was pre-First and the company was still employee owned. The last 'deckers I travelled on there were X-plate Volvo B7TL/ALX400.



I recall that Reading was doing a trial with the Metrodecker a couple of years ago. Did anything come of that?

GRT wasn't employee owned (they had a third of shares) but was management owned by Moir and 4 others with 51% of shares. In 1992, they had only bought Midland Bluebird but would soon start Moir's tilt at world domination with various purchases followed by the merger with Badgerline to create First. Therefore in 1992, there was probably more management focus and fewer distractions and not over extending themselves!

I say "merger" with Badgerline.The line I heard is that it was a takeover by Moir - only Trevor Smallwood didn't know that at the time!!!

 

[Robertj21a]

GRT wasn't employee owned (they had a third of shares) but was management owned by Moir and 4 others with 51% of shares. In 1992, they had only bought Midland Bluebird but would soon start Moir's tilt at world domination with various purchases followed by the merger with Badgerline to create First. Therefore in 1992, there was probably more management focus and fewer distractions and not over extending themselves!

I say "merger" with Badgerline.The line I heard is that it was a takeover by Moir - only Trevor Smallwood didn't know that at the time!!!

And we all know what happens to people who think they can dominate the world !

 

[Mikey C]

Go Ahead London also had a demonstrator on long term loan, but again, it did not yield any sales. (It then went on loan to Autocar who are not renown for buying new buses). One of the problems is that there is no hybrid version, and all new buses in London tend to be hybrid. The bus is lighter than competitors, so fuel economy should be good - if only they could get a sizeable order (even if the price had to be dropped to secure it).

There is a battery version - maybe they are pinning their hopes on securing London sales of this model.

Their most successful model is the Solo - but this seems to be edged out by the Streetlite - why???

East Lancs for all their financial problems had a steady business bodying Volvos and Scanias. After Optare took them over, this business was stopped, and the integral Metrodecker has struggled to gain a foothold.

In the meantime, MCV have come in and gained significant business bodying the popular Volvo hybrid chassis, work which Optare/East Lancs gave up on

 

[GusB]

GRT wasn't employee owned (they had a third of shares) but was management owned by Moir and 4 others with 51% of shares. In 1992, they had only bought Midland Bluebird but would soon start Moir's tilt at world domination with various purchases followed by the merger with Badgerline to create First. Therefore in 1992, there was probably more management focus and fewer distractions and not over extending themselves!

I say "merger" with Badgerline.The line I heard is that it was a takeover by Moir - only Trevor Smallwood didn't know that at the time!!!

I didn't realise that the employee share was only a third, but I suppose managers are technically employees too In those days the fleetnames were adorned with a ribbon proclaiming "Employee Owned - Caring for YOU". If I remember correctly, they disappeared fairly rapidly after GRT's flotation.

Anyhow, I fear we're drifting off-topic.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I say "merger" with Badgerline.The line I heard is that it was a takeover by Moir - only Trevor Smallwood didn't know that at the time!!!

It was about as friendly a merger as when Badgerline took over Yorkshire Rider, wasn't it?

And that's definitely off topic.

Does anyone know why Optare can't shift the MetroDecker? I know their reputation for building quality goes before them, but still.

 

[F Great Eastern]

East Lancs for all their financial problems had a steady business bodying Volvos and Scanias. After Optare took them over, this business was stopped, and the integral Metrodecker has struggled to gain a foothold.

And you have to remember that for many years East Lancs were building Scania badged products such as the Omnidekka a long while before Scania built their own bodies.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was about as friendly a merger as when Badgerline took over Yorkshire Rider, wasn't it?

And that's definitely off topic.

Does anyone know why Optare can't shift the MetroDecker? I know their reputation for building quality goes before them, but still.

It is off topic but YR was purchased by Badgerline. Badgerline and GRT was supposed to be a merger of almost equals (Badgerline was bigger) but in the event, became a reverse takeover!

As for the Metrodecker, perhaps it's because it's an integral? The Wright Streetdeck has had limited take up (other than First who had a hand in it's development) so maybe that?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I didn't realise that the employee share was only a third, but I suppose managers are technically employees too In those days the fleetnames were adorned with a ribbon proclaiming "Employee Owned - Caring for YOU". If I remember correctly, they disappeared fairly rapidly after GRT's flotation.

Anyhow, I fear we're drifting off-topic.

Indeed, Busways also carried "An Employee Owned Company" - they owned 49% and the management owned 51%.

 

[the101]

Re the Metrodecker, there is a fear in some quarters for the future of Optare, and the implications for aftermarket support should the worst happen. That's a justified concern, albeit perhaps a bit OTT.

The other rumour is that it isn't actually production-ready even now, and that Optare will only spend the money to make it so for a suitably-sized order. As to why one of those hasn't yet been received, missing the boat for a hybrid version was a big mistake but other than that I am at a loss to explain it, other than the potential issue further down the line in my first paragraph. It is the equal of anything else there from a passenger's point of view and it is better than anything else fuel-wise.

 

[Mikey C]

Re the Metrodecker, there is a fear in some quarters for the future of Optare, and the implications for aftermarket support should the worst happen. That's a justified concern, albeit perhaps a bit OTT.

The other rumour is that it isn't actually production-ready even now, and that Optare will only spend the money to make it so for a suitably-sized order. As to why one of those hasn't yet been received, missing the boat for a hybrid version was a big mistake but other than that I am at a loss to explain it, other than the potential issue further down the line in my first paragraph. It is the equal of anything else there from a passenger's point of view and it is better than anything else fuel-wise.

Optare are controlled by Ashok Leyland, so that ought to give operators some security that they won't go under...

Optare seem to have missed the boat when it comes to hybrid drivetrains, maybe they're hoping to be more of a leader in full electric buses?

 

[the101]

Optare are controlled by Ashok Leyland, so that ought to give operators some security that they won't go under..

Yes, Optare is owned by Ashok for now. The problem is that Ashok was searching for a buyer for Optare a few months ago, to the extent that a number of interested parties had a sniff around it. A prospectus went round all that may have been in the market.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Indeed, Busways also carried "An Employee Owned Company" - they owned 49% and the management owned 51%.

which meant at that time 100% was in the hands of the staff of all grades, rather than a.n.other private sector company