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New Defence Pact between the UK, USA and Australia
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Form an alliance with someone who has some.
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johncrossley
Established Member
Which Australia already has.
Indeed, but its clearly not in a position of "never hoping to afford" its own.
johncrossley
Established Member
But if you get your own, that means you think that alliances don't work.
I'm not quite sure how that follows? Surely it's a good thing if your part of an alliance and a smaller member decides to contribute more to their own defence meaning that the whole alliance is strengthened?
johncrossley
Established Member
But I'm sure Australia could remain safe without it. Similarly if Luxembourg and New Zealand decide not to have their own subs.
Well, if you do decide you need that capability in one way or another, the more countries in the alliance that have it, the better.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
An interesting point is that there is a two way trade between the UK and USA on submarine technology. I wonder if we were invited into this deal in order to continue that?
birchesgreen
Established Member
The Astute platform (or a development of) is probably more suitable for a smaller navy than US designs so it might be our sub design but with US sensors and weapons. Or course it might just have been because Biden could at least remember our prime minister's name.
I think it's unlikely to be either an Astute (very Gucci piece of kit) or a Virginia (though I do think if they go fully off the shelf Virginia is the more likely bet though probably without so much focus on land attack). But what caught my eye (and others) was this announcement a few days ago:
www.gov.uk
Now Astute is not expected to be replaced until around the late 2030s early 2040s (Barrow being occupied building the Dreadnought class ballistic missile boats in the meantime) and I'm sure Australia will wanting something in the water before the late 2030s! But considering they're starting from scratch I wouldn't be surprised to see it taking out to the late 2020s or even early 2030s. It's taking the US with their drumbeat of Virginia class construction around three years from laying down to commissioning, you have to figure that as Australia are building a nuclear sub capability from scratch it'll take them longer even if a submarine was laid down tomorrow for them in a US yard (Barrow don't have the spare capacity and besides it takes us about eight years to build an Astute class).
But the Royal Navy's future requirements for a replacement for Astute might dovetail quite nicely with the Australian need for their new SSNs. Something to keep an eye on anyway.
£170-million investment for the next generation of Royal Navy submarines
BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce will undertake concept and design work for the Royal Navy submarines.
Now Astute is not expected to be replaced until around the late 2030s early 2040s (Barrow being occupied building the Dreadnought class ballistic missile boats in the meantime) and I'm sure Australia will wanting something in the water before the late 2030s! But considering they're starting from scratch I wouldn't be surprised to see it taking out to the late 2020s or even early 2030s. It's taking the US with their drumbeat of Virginia class construction around three years from laying down to commissioning, you have to figure that as Australia are building a nuclear sub capability from scratch it'll take them longer even if a submarine was laid down tomorrow for them in a US yard (Barrow don't have the spare capacity and besides it takes us about eight years to build an Astute class).
But the Royal Navy's future requirements for a replacement for Astute might dovetail quite nicely with the Australian need for their new SSNs. Something to keep an eye on anyway.
The US have been decommissioning their older Los Angeles class submarines. I wonder whether rather than scrapping, at least some could be refurbished to provide Australia with an immediate capability whilst the production facilities for their own ones is sorted out?
birchesgreen
Established Member
No, the submarines will require a lot of work to be made useful and cost a lot. Now i could be a shore based one be used for some training (in the US) but thats it.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I think reactor safety protocols/procedures is something that takes years to develop!
Looks like the first response from the French government has reached Australia..
www.bbc.co.uk
Melbourne earthquake: Tremor rattles southeast Australia
A 5.9 magnitude earthquake rattles Australia's second largest city, causing damage to buildings.
www.bbc.co.uk
Pakenhamtrain
Established Member
I can tell you now that was interesting to say the lest.Looks like the first response from the French government has reached Australia..
Melbourne earthquake: Tremor rattles southeast Australia
A 5.9 magnitude earthquake rattles Australia's second largest city, causing damage to buildings.
I was at work and was wondering why my workbench was wobbling up and down. About 5 seconds later it really hit. Easily the biggest I've felt.
johncrossley
Established Member
I see BJ is using his famous diplomacy skills to smooth things over with the French.
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