New Car Tyres - Cuts etc

[Snow1964]

Would a typical UK tyre be considered a summer tyre in mainland/alpine Europe, or are they already a form of 'all season' compromise ?

When we were on a summer trip to Austria, one of our cars suffered a puncture that could not be repaired. The local tyre shop apologised that it would take two days to source a replacement. To them, the tyre was a pointless compromise, neither summer nor winter, so nobody in the country stocked it.

All season tyres were uncommon until about 4-7 years ago.
They were introduced for climates like UK

What most in UK call a tyre is a summer tyre, didn’t really matter until all seasons came along, but it seems that when the WLTP (world standard emissions test) was introduced, the tyre manufacturers re formulated summer tyres and made them more summer like, (raised ideal temperature range), so whereas they used to be ok (but not great) in cold weather, they are no longer able to cope with cold rain well. This seems consistent with tyre tests done in cold and wet, but no one seems to advertise this change.

I discovered this new problem when pulling out of a side turning on a wet cold morning I spun the wheels (in a 1 litre auto gearbox car), after asking around, changed to cold weather tyres and it now grips on wet or frosty country roads.

 

[paul1609]

My understanding is that Euro 7 cars will only be able to use the car manufacturers specified tyres as the emmision legislation includes tyre particularlates.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My understanding is that Euro 7 cars will only be able to use the car manufacturers specified tyres as the emmision legislation includes tyre particularlates.

That's the proposal but I can't see it happening. More likely, and more useful, would be a law requiring all new road legal tyres sold to meet particulate emission standards, and to factor in the car's weight in the certification of the car to Euro 7.

 

[d9009alycidon]

My understanding is that Euro 7 cars will only be able to use the car manufacturers specified tyres as the emmision legislation includes tyre particularlates.

I find this improbable. The major tyre manufacturers sell their top of the range OE tyres to the car companies at a loss so that the less knowledgeable will replace like with like. These manufacturers also make replacement budget tyres using the same green tyre that they use for their premium brand, they also will use higher spec compound on the full range as it saves time and money changing over the extruder etc. I worked for Continental for 13 years, knowing what I know I can tell you that half the crap that is spouted by dealers is pure lies to get you to part with more money. Your cheapest budget brand has to conform to basic standards that are perfectly safe for use on British Roads

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find this improbable. The major tyre manufacturers sell their top of the range OE tyres to the car companies at a loss so that the less knowledgeable will replace like with like. These manufacturers also make replacement budget tyres using the same green tyre that they use for their premium brand, they also will use higher spec compound on the full range as it saves time and money changing over the extruder etc. I worked for Continental for 13 years, knowing what I know I can tell you that half the crap that is spouted by dealers is pure lies to get you to part with more money. Your cheapest budget brand has to conform to basic standards that are perfectly safe for use on British Roads

Budget tyres don't generally last as long, to be fair. But midrange brands like Toyo are perfectly decent. You're right about basic safety standards, though, similar to cycle helmets which all meet the basic standard and you choose on things like comfort, how light it is, fashion style etc.

 

[Cloud Strife]

But midrange brands like Toyo are perfectly decent.

I've always gone by the rule that midrange brands are perfectly fine. I'm driving around on Yokohama tyres for winter, and they do the job perfectly for typical Central European winters.

 

[A0]

Budget tyres don't generally last as long, to be fair. But midrange brands like Toyo are perfectly decent. You're right about basic safety standards, though, similar to cycle helmets which all meet the basic standard and you choose on things like comfort, how light it is, fashion style etc.

The bigger issue with budget tyres is they perform badly - usually with much longer braking distances, are less predictable in the wet and also tend to negatively affect the fuel economy of the car.

The only time I've ever put a set of 'budget' tyres on a car, was an inexpensive Ford Focus that I was planning to sell a couple of months later, so decided a full new set of tyres would make the sale a bit easier (less for somebody to try to knock off the price). I think it was about £ 160 for a full set of some un-branded tyre. The car lost a good chunk of its sure-footedness and the fuel economy dropped by about 10% as well.

Mid range tyres (so the likes of Nexen, Goodyear, Hankook, Dunlop) are absolutely fine for most people - clearly if you're running something high performance or powerful there's a case for looking at top end tyres.

Best advice is always to start by running a search through Blackcircles.com - it at least gives you a benchmark for prices and Blackcircles fitting places are usually independents who actually do a half decent job. The "big boys" i.e. Kwik fit, National, ATS are fine in an emergency and will at least fit safe tyres, but their fitters do talk some crap. I recently had 2 tyres changed on my car (both nearside), so I asked them to shift a couple around so I had the two new tyres on the rear axle and 2 part worn cheapies (which were on the car when I bought it) on the front - the response "oh no, guv. can't do that, because the tyre pressure sensors are 'paired' to a corner so it'll stop that working" - 5 minutes on the internet proved they were talking utter bollocks and I moved the wheels around myself when I got home and all is fine.

 

[A0]

This is clearly dodgy. Good that you have returned them. One of those looks repaired.

The UK largely doesn't do winter tyres. There is no legal requirement and hardly anyone bothers with them for the week or so a year they may be useful.

People who 'do' winter tyres usually have a spare set of wheels to put them on, rather than putting tyres on and off.

My parents do - they live out in the countryside at the bottom of a hill - not only do they have a set of winter tyres for one of their cars, it's a set of steel wheels, so if it hits a pothole or kerb in poor conditions it doesn't total a perfectly good alloy wheel.

 

[Tetchytyke]

because the tyre pressure sensors are 'paired' to a corner so it'll stop that working

On my Qashqai they are. I found this out when the garage moved a rear tyre to the front, so the display is wrong. Picks up the correct pressure but shows it on the wrong corner. It makes no difference to the car though.

It could also be that the electrics on the Qashqai are a bit temperamental.

 

[Snow1964]

People who 'do' winter tyres usually have a spare set of wheels to put them on, rather than putting tyres on and off.

My parents do - they live out in the countryside at the bottom of a hill - not only do they have a set of winter tyres for one of their cars, it's a set of steel wheels, so if it hits a pothole or kerb in poor conditions it doesn't total a perfectly good alloy wheel.

I put on a winter set (16 inch rims) early November to early April, instead of the 18 inch with summer tyres that car came with. There are lots of hills near where I live, and A and B roads with wet field run off that sometimes freezes. I like to get to my home, not slide into hedge or ditch or abandon car on a hill and walk.

The summer tyres can be skittish in current weather, the winter tyres let you drive like a dry summer day, even when frosty. Last time it snowed was driving down a winding B road and glanced at speedo and startled myself as I was doing 45mph, the snow had absorbed all sound and I thought I was doing about 20mph. That’s how good the extra grip is, was driving round all the corners like a dry road. Would never drive with summer tyres in winter again.

Noticed all the supermarkets vans, and delivery van drivers seem to have winter or all season tyres, so not as unusual in UK as some claim.

 

[E27007]

Hey guys - Not knowing a thing about tyres and wondering if anyone else does (realise this is a rail forum but might be some auto experts around lol)

Got 4 new tyres fitted yesterday - Inspected them today and saw a crack to one of them - Tyre place says this one will be replaced

Then started looking more closely and noticed all have little marks / cuts on them. Are these anything to worry about? Tyre place says they look normal.

On further note they inflated one tyre to 4.0 bar and another to 3.2 when really they should be 2.5 ish...

Thanks guys!

Picture 1 shows major sidewall damage, I doubt if it is roadworthy and there is a risk of prosecution.Picture 3 , I think that is the top of a plug repair.
i do not think the tyre(s) are new, how many miles have you covered between fitting and the photography?
Were they sold to you as new or used?
Michelin are a premium brand, how much did you pay for the set of tyres excluding fitting?
I would be considering reporting the matter to Trading Standards

 

[Lost property]

For the OP...as others have said, on the basis of that first photograph alone, get in touch witheTrading Standards...preferably today. If they've sold you one in that condition, how many more have they sold with similar, glaringly obvious. defects and how many more do they have in stock waiting to be sold to the unwary. When it comes to tyres / brakes, any form of damage is a no go item...your own, and everybody else on the roads safety is dependent on them being safe to use.

Out of interest, did you by any chance notice other "new " tyres on the racks....without a label on ?

" A garage that is that careless with pressures has probably put the wheels back on with wrong torque too, an extra burst with a air gun is not professional way, instead of a correctly using torque wrench. (correct torque will be in your handbook, something like 110-120 Nm)"

A few years ago, trying to shop local as I prefer to do, went to a local garage for new tyres.....arrived in time to watch the father, it was a family business, "happily" tightening the wheel nuts on a bog standard Fiesta.....using only a very long Tommy bar...the son, doing a credible village idiot impression, approached and said they sold Dunlop's and they were very good tyres....yes, I agreed, but when I declined, the father approached and demanded to know why....this was where it started to get a bit "warm", when I said after watching him "torque load " the wheelnuts, then I wouldn't be inclined to let him near my car....cue what did I know about torque loadings!!!...quietly explained...and then asked how, out of interest, he calibrated his knuckles and arm muscles ?

 

[Ducatist4]

Have they sold you part worn tyres? They look well used to me with an obvious repair plug in one of them.

 

[A0]

For the OP...as others have said, on the basis of that first photograph alone, get in touch witheTrading Standards...preferably today. If they've sold you one in that condition, how many more have they sold with similar, glaringly obvious. defects and how many more do they have in stock waiting to be sold to the unwary. When it comes to tyres / brakes, any form of damage is a no go item...your own, and everybody else on the roads safety is dependent on them being safe to use.

Out of interest, did you by any chance notice other "new " tyres on the racks....without a label on ?

" A garage that is that careless with pressures has probably put the wheels back on with wrong torque too, an extra burst with a air gun is not professional way, instead of a correctly using torque wrench. (correct torque will be in your handbook, something like 110-120 Nm)"

A few years ago, trying to shop local as I prefer to do, went to a local garage for new tyres.....arrived in time to watch the father, it was a family business, "happily" tightening the wheel nuts on a bog standard Fiesta.....using only a very long Tommy bar...the son, doing a credible village idiot impression, approached and said they sold Dunlop's and they were very good tyres....yes, I agreed, but when I declined, the father approached and demanded to know why....this was where it started to get a bit "warm", when I said after watching him "torque load " the wheelnuts, then I wouldn't be inclined to let him near my car....cue what did I know about torque loadings!!!...quietly explained...and then asked how, out of interest, he calibrated his knuckles and arm muscles ?

With respect, the bits in bold are actually quite unhelpful.

Over 30 years of driving, I've *never* used a torque wrench on wheel nuts. The only people I know who routinely do are those who go track racing.

Having checked over the manual for my car, there is *no* mention whatsoever of torque settings for the wheel nuts (and this is a 2 year old Vauxhall - I suspect most other manuals from major manufacturers are the same). And nobody carries a torque wrench in the boot of their car unless they are a mechanic.

On the air gun - those wrenches will be set to a torque setting and your average tyre fitting place isn't going to be using the same tools for changing a cylinder head for example, where torque settings *are* mentioned in the manuals of most cars and *are* important.

 

[Ducatist4]

I always check the torque on my wheel nuts after I've had the wheels off and i think that last few times I've had tyres changed the tyre place has advised to me to check when I've driven a bit as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Over 30 years of driving, I've *never* used a torque wrench on wheel nuts. The only people I know who routinely do are those who go track racing.

Same. And until I got a car with alloys where the spare isn't the same as the others, I'd just put the spare on if I had a puncture or a bald tyre and it'd stay on, with the new one going on the other wheel of that axle and the other one going in the boot as the spare, so I've done this a few times and never have the nuts come loose if done to the classic "half a turn past * tight" with the supplied wheelbrace. Though admittedly I'm on the hefty side so that might be tighter than for some people.

There is a risk of cracking alloys if you overtighten, theoretically, but I don't think I've ever heard of it actually happening.

* insert swear word of choice

On the air gun - those wrenches will be set to a torque setting and your average tyre fitting place isn't going to be using the same tools for changing a cylinder head for example, where torque settings *are* mentioned in the manuals of most cars and *are* important.

Yep. Interestingly when I last had one done, at the local Just Tyres (which really is a spit-and-sawdust tyre place), they did it with a breaker bar but with a torque head on it, you could hear it click as they were doing it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2022 ==

I always check the torque on my wheel nuts after I've had the wheels off and i think that last few times I've had tyres changed the tyre place has advised to me to check when I've driven a bit as well.

You're an exception as a car owner if you own a torque wrench. I have one and I don't even bother using it for that.

Checking they haven't come loose using the wheelbrace is usually advised though.

 

[ChrisRS]

Thanks guys! Very helpful.

These were sold as 'New'

Went back to him and he says all his tyres have come off 'new' cars - whatever that means.

All the tyres in the pics were the 'new' tyres.

Given an earful to the garage owner who has given me an earful back. Upshot is I'll get my old tyres back and he's taking back these duds and I never have to see that place again.

False advertising, you can't claim a tyre is new because it came off a 12 month old "new" car.

I got my tyres replaced a few thousand miles ago and they look cleaner than these.

 

[Lost property]

With respect, the bits in bold are actually quite unhelpful.

Over 30 years of driving, I've *never* used a torque wrench on wheel nuts. The only people I know who routinely do are those who go track racing.

Having checked over the manual for my car, there is *no* mention whatsoever of torque settings for the wheel nuts (and this is a 2 year old Vauxhall - I suspect most other manuals from major manufacturers are the same). And nobody carries a torque wrench in the boot of their car unless they are a mechanic.

On the air gun - those wrenches will be set to a torque setting and your average tyre fitting place isn't going to be using the same tools for changing a cylinder head for example, where torque settings *are* mentioned in the manuals of most cars and *are* important.

With respect, you've clearly missed the point.

We have something in common when it comes to not using a torque wrench when refitting a car wheel.

We have nothing in common with you not being able to understand the basic principles of torque loading and levers. As I said, he was using a long tommy bar, not a standard as supplied with the car wheel nut removal tool. He was also, lets say, a very large individual.

 

[A0]

With respect, you've clearly missed the point.

We have something in common when it comes to not using a torque wrench when refitting a car wheel.

We have nothing in common with you not being able to understand the basic principles of torque loading and levers. As I said, he was using a long tommy bar, not a standard as supplied with the car wheel nut removal tool. He was also, lets say, a very large individual.

No, I haven't missed the point - and yes I do.

The reality is the wheel wrenches supplied with cars are too short to be useful for anything other than getting a wheel nut hand tight. They are utterly useless - and generally don't offer sufficient purchase to remove wheel nuts which had been previously put on using an air gun (which is what happens on the production line). It's why I always have one of the extending 'telescopic' type wrenches, because they are more suitable.

 

[Ted633]

The wheel wrench you get along with your spare wheel is really just for emergencies only (flat tyre). You should always use torque wrenches when carrying out routine maintenance. If you use a torque wrench to fit the wheel when doing routine maintenance, the supplied wheel wrench is sufficient for removing it if you have a flat tyre.

My owners manual strongly recommends getting to a garage ASAP to correctly torque the wheel nuts if you've had to change the wheel at the side of the road using the supplied wheel wrench.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The wheel wrench you get along with your spare wheel is really just for emergencies only (flat tyre). You should always use torque wrenches when carrying out routine maintenance. If you use a torque wrench to fit the wheel when doing routine maintenance, the supplied wheel wrench is sufficient for removing it if you have a flat tyre.

My owners manual strongly recommends getting to a garage ASAP to correctly torque the wheel nuts if you've had to change the wheel at the side of the road using the supplied wheel wrench.

Your manual might say that, but hardly anyone does it, and the last time I ever recall seeing a wheel flying off a vehicle was when our Scout trailer lost a wheel on the way up the M6 to Summer Camp in about 1994, which was caused by rusted studs snapping off.

 

[moleman212]

Just thought I'd update that I got some new Michelin CrossClimate2 tyres instead from ATS - won't ever bother with the mickey mouse garage again who I'm sure didn't even balance the new tyres. Give it a few weeks and I'll probably tip off the council...

Thanks everyone for the advice and help