New Bus for London (aka Borismaster)

[MotCO]

Another thread discusses best and worse buses, but I don't recall any comment about the New Bus for London. How does this bus rate compared with its contemparies, e.g. Enviro 400, Volvo B5TL, Metrodecker etc, from a driver's and operational perspective? (PS I'm not interested in the 'vanity project' or Boris aspects, just how does it compare operationally.)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another thread discusses best and worse buses, but I don't recall any comment about the New Bus for London. How does this bus rate compared with its contemparies, e.g. Enviro 400, Volvo B5TL, Metrodecker etc, from a driver's and operational perspective? (PS I'm not interested in the 'vanity project' or Boris aspects, just how does it compare operationally.)

You don't recall any comment

It has been discussed at length in threads such as:

• I hope we get more than 808 routemasters for London - a lot of trolling on there by someone now banned
• More Borismaster discussion in 2016

 

[MotCO]

You don't recall any comment

It has been discussed at length in threads such as:

• I hope we get more than 808 routemasters for London - a lot of trolling on there by someone now banned
• More Borismaster discussion in 2016

I admit I have not read all these posts, but having scanned them, I could not see any comments about what it is like to drive a NBfL and what it is like to operate as compared to other modern buses. The 'More Borismaster discussion' considered the politcal issues and comparison with bendy buses; what I am interested in is whether drivers and operators prefer NBfL or Enviro 400s etc.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

what I am interested in is whether drivers and operators prefer NBfL or Enviro 400s etc.

In terms of operators, that is pretty self evident. You could purchase an e400 or indeed e400city, or you could buy a more expensive, less reliable, hybrid that has little or no resale value. Think that covers it.

 

[carlberry]

I admit I have not read all these posts, but having scanned them, I could not see any comments about what it is like to drive a NBfL and what it is like to operate as compared to other modern buses. The 'More Borismaster discussion' considered the politcal issues and comparison with bendy buses; what I am interested in is whether drivers and operators prefer NBfL or Enviro 400s etc.

From an operators point of view (and in this I'm second guessing all the TfL regulations/service guidelines/KPIs etc I suspect they may prefer the NBfL.
TfL supply them and, I assume, therefore end up with all associated costs of operation and any costs in terms of reliability. So, in theory, the operator has a vehicle that has no purchase costs, is 100% reliable (as it's somebode else's issue if it fails) and takes no risk on residual costs (which has been an issue previously with TfL owing to their love/hate affair with bendi buses).
If however any of the above assumptions are not true then they're be regarded much the same as any prototype level hybrid bus which, given the numbers of provincial ones that have been re-engineered back to diesel, isn't high.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From an operators point of view (and in this I'm second guessing all the TfL regulations/service guidelines/KPIs etc I suspect they may prefer the NBfL.
TfL supply them and, I assume, therefore end up with all associated costs of operation and any costs in terms of reliability. So, in theory, the operator has a vehicle that has no purchase costs, is 100% reliable (as it's somebode else's issue if it fails) and takes no risk on residual costs (which has been an issue previously with TfL owing to their love/hate affair with bendi buses).
If however any of the above assumptions are not true then they're be regarded much the same as any prototype level hybrid bus which, given the numbers of provincial ones that have been re-engineered back to diesel, isn't high.

I would suspect the truth sits somewhere in between.

They are getting a "free bus" with no capital tied up and no residual value risk so yeah, that makes sense. However, they will be responsible for the maintenance and ensuring vehicle availability as part of their SLA. Doubt if they'll get a free swing because they are using NBfL

 

[Vespa]

I thought the Boris bus is an interesting concept with a rear platform and a slightly longer bus, they are quiet and smooth, I do have a couple of issues with it being the seat is too short for my legs and no open windows ventilation for hot days, I have heard the A/C can sometimes fail turning the bus into a sweat box.

If they can fix those issues, you would have an enduring iconic London bus on par with the old Routemasters, which also had teething troubles of their own when they were introduced.

There's talk of having trolleybus operation down Oxford Street by converting some of the Boris bus, nothing came of that propsal as I understand it BYD double decker all electric bus is being looked at.

I have to say overall, I like the Boris bus.

 

[Robertj21a]

I thought the Boris bus is an interesting concept with a rear platform and a slightly longer bus, they are quiet and smooth, I do have a couple of issues with it being the seat is too short for my legs and no open windows ventilation for hot days, I have heard the A/C can sometimes fail turning the bus into a sweat box.

If they can fix those issues, you would have an enduring iconic London bus on par with the old Routemasters, which also had teething troubles of their own when they were introduced.

There's talk of having trolleybus operation down Oxford Street by converting some of the Boris bus, nothing came of that propsal as I understand it BYD double decker all electric bus is being looked at.

I have to say overall, I like the Boris bus.

They don't have aircon, that's part of the problem.

 

[MotCO]

They don't have aircon, that's part of the problem.

Few buses have true aircon. I think the Borismaster had 'air cooling', but proved to be insufficient.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Few buses have true aircon. I think the Borismaster had 'air cooling', but proved to be insufficient.

Weight is the issue. If you're going to fit proper aircon you pretty much have to go 6-axle, which of course makes accessibility less good as well as the cost.

 

[AM9]

Weight is the issue. If you're going to fit proper aircon you pretty much have to go 6-axle, which of course makes accessibility less good as well as the cost.

Yes, if anyone has visited Hong Kong, those buses are what London would have if full AC was insisted on. Big and very heavy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, if anyone has visited Hong Kong, those buses are what London would have if full AC was insisted on. Big and very heavy.

Indeed. The stupid thing was that they thought the "air cooling" would be adequate. They should have had (and now do have) opening windows and extractor fans like every other London bus.

 

[Vespa]

I thought it had air conditioning, I assumed air cooling is the same thing.

Nice to hear about them getting retro fitted with opening windows, it would be needed.

 

[Robertj21a]

Weight is the issue. If you're going to fit proper aircon you pretty much have to go 6-axle, which of course makes accessibility less good as well as the cost.

An interesting vision.....
No doubt just 3 axles ..

 

[Bletchleyite]

An interesting vision.....
No doubt just 3 axles ..

I did of course mean 3 axle/6 wheel

(Though that's actually 8 wheels as the middle one tends to be double...)

 

[AM9]

Indeed. The stupid thing was that they thought the "air cooling" would be adequate. They should have had (and now do have) opening windows and extractor fans like every other London bus.

Having said about the HK buses, a lot of the time it's impossible to see out of the windows because the AC cooled windows are all steamed up by the 90+% RH outside. Not usually an issue in London!

 

[Steelwheels]

Having said about the HK buses, a lot of the time it's impossible to see out of the windows because the AC cooled windows are all steamed up by the 90+% RH outside. Not usually an issue in London!

AC cooling on any bus in the UK would only be used for 2 weeks of the year, and those 2 weeks would be spread over the 52 weeks going by our wonderful weather systems!!!