New Build Claud Hamilton "Phoenix"

[Phoenix - 8783]

We aim to build and operate a standard gauge 4-4-0 D16/2 "Claud Hamilton" steam locomotive No.8783 to be named "Phoenix" and dedicated to James Holden who became Locomotive Superintendent at the Great Eastern Railway in July 1885.

The locomotive will be numbered 8783, this was the number given to one of two Claud Hamiltons allocated to Royal Train duties. Although 8783 was never named we will be naming the new build "Phoenix".
The loco will be used primarily on heritage railways, although we are looking into possible mainline use.

We should be holding two public meetings this summer where you can come along, hear about our plans and ask us questions about the project. The dates, times and locations will be announced shortly.

Visit our website for more details:
http://claudhamiltongroup.webs.com/

 

[PinzaC55]

Just curious will it be possible to use parts from ex Barry locos in the build or one of the old tenders which used to be dotted about the country?

 

[Phoenix - 8783]

We are indeed currently looking into several of the tenders around the UK.
Mainly the spare B12 tender at NNR as this is almost exactly the same as a Clauds. There is also a 'spare' tender frame at NNR apprently from a J15.

 

[PinzaC55]

Cool. I've done a run from Malton to Driffield using the Claude Hamilton in Trainz 2009 rail simulator http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHQvR0v2mwE
It's one of my favourite loco's there due to the volcanic smoke effects.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

An interesting project, I wonder how the mainstream of steam fans will take this. Creating replicas has been commonplace in the world of air displays for some time and many flying examples even of Second World War planes are largely rebuilt, but aside from Tornado, it is something not usually done on the railways.

 

[E&W Lucas]

An interesting project, I wonder how the mainstream of steam fans will take this. Creating replicas has been commonplace in the world of air displays for some time and many flying examples even of Second World War planes are largely rebuilt, but aside from Tornado, it is something not usually done on the railways.

So are quite a number of still operating steam locos!

Re the project, there's quite a number of rebuild projects about, but aside from those largely using extant components (ie the "cut and paste" GWR projects and the brighton Atlantic), and maybe the 3MT, I very much doubt if many will ever be completed. The A1 has tremendous appeal amongst enthusiasts, but even they had to run up large debts to finish the project.

The £1.2 million build cost sounds a little on the low side, probably by a factor of 30%. Any new railway project is potentially interesting, but this one is a little low on detail. There's no info about those behind it. What's their experience of engineering, project management, design, fund raising, etc?

 

[Kinghambranch]

I understand, from the organisation's website, that they are "testing the water" to see if this potentially wallet-emptying scheme has "legs" or "wheels." If there is a market for inside cylinder 4-4-0s which should have been preserved (and one nearly was) then the "Claud" should be a good example.
Several of these new-build (Tornado) or nearly new build (Hawksworth County) locomotives are now gaining what I like to call a "critical mass". Tornado is already well past that of course and is in a different league from the others. The Grange, County, Beachy Head etc are catching up. My personal financial support is for the new Standard 3MT Tank (82045) and the "Baby Scot" Patriot. I believe that we will see all of the above in working order (in the case of 82045 we might see 10 or more if the heritage movement really catches on) but it all depends on the will of the organisation and how well it can empty the wallets of the willing. Bill Gates has pledged £600,000,000 for worldwide child immunisation so money can do a lot! However, I would not presume to be so callous or perverse to compare the altruism of a multi-millionaire to the aims of a group of steam locomotive aficionados!

 

[E&W Lucas]

I understand, from the organisation's website, that they are "testing the water" to see if this potentially wallet-emptying scheme has "legs" or "wheels." If there is a market for inside cylinder 4-4-0s which should have been preserved (and one nearly was) then the "Claud" should be a good example.

Undoubtedly a worthy type for consideration, but a practical one? Reading the website gave me instant reservations.

Going off on tangents like Lempur ejectors and roller bearings, gave me the feeling that it was written by someone who'd read a book about steam locomotives, rather than someone with practical experience of maintaining and operating them. "We've ascertained that the NRM holds the full set of engineering drawings" (Do they?), would have been a far more impressive start.

Lots of pictures of models and history, but no evidence there of first had experience. To pull such a project off, would require the leadership of those with an abundance of it.

 

[GNER 373]

Well I'd just like to say good luck with your project!

 

[Kinghambranch]

Well I'd just like to say good luck with your project!

I'll second that!
Actually luck sometimes has quite a lot to do with it; there are times when being in the right company at the right time or talking to the right persons with the right influence can pay dividends for a project like this (personally I haven't experienced it yet!) but I know that various projects have benefited from being in the right place at the right time. The current support for UK Forces personnel on operations and the desire to see an historic memorial steam locomotive recreated has undoubtedly helped the Patriot Project for example and encouraged backing from those who might not otherwise do so. The problem arises when a major sponsor is relied on but one doesn't appear (and has been a big issue for the Vulcan bomber aircraft which is eye-wateringly expensive to run compared to a mere Edwardian 4-4-0). However, E&W Lucas is quite right in that strong leadership and experience are crucial if such a project is to succeeed. I know that luck won't pay the bills but it can sometimes help.

 

[Phoenix - 8783]

Undoubtedly a worthy type for consideration, but a practical one? Reading the website gave me instant reservations.

Going off on tangents like Lempur ejectors and roller bearings, gave me the feeling that it was written by someone who'd read a book about steam locomotives, rather than someone with practical experience of maintaining and operating them. "We've ascertained that the NRM holds the full set of engineering drawings" (Do they?), would have been a far more impressive start.

Lots of pictures of models and history, but no evidence there of first had experience. To pull such a project off, would require the leadership of those with an abundance of it.

As it says on the website (or the last time i looked) it said lempur ejectors and roller bearings are just possible improvements for the Claud i the design allows, and yes the NRM has drawings for us (hence on the websites homepage it says thanks to the NRM), and a few of us plan to go to York soon to collect these. The Essex Records Office also has drawings we can possibly use.
Two other new builds are interested in working with us to reduce cost on expensive components.

Bit of an update we will be aiming the project not just at enthusiasts and the general public but also younger people so 10-16yr olds to try and get more interested in railways along with the build itself.

 

[E&W Lucas]

As it says on the website (or the last time i looked) it said lempur ejectors and roller bearings are just possible improvements for the Claud i the design allows, and yes the NRM has drawings for us (hence on the websites homepage it says thanks to the NRM), and a few of us plan to go to York soon to collect these. The Essex Records Office also has drawings we can possibly use.
Two other new builds are interested in working with us to reduce cost on expensive components.

Bit of an update we will be aiming the project not just at enthusiasts and the general public but also younger people so 10-16yr olds to try and get more interested in railways along with the build itself.

But no answer to the question of whether you have any first hand experience of maintaining or operating steam traction?
If the other two projects are the B17 & GER 262 tank, they're sadly little more than enthusiast fantasies. Especially the B17, as I've never been on a Gresley loco that I haven't liked!

 

[Phoenix - 8783]

55% of the team have exerience with steam locomotive operation and maintenance - many of us are volunteers at verious railways.

 

[E&W Lucas]

55% of the team have exerience with steam locomotive operation and maintenance - many of us are volunteers at verious railways.

You're missing the point. To pull a project like this off, you need the CV. Serious engineering project management experience. Plus finance, marketing and fund raising. If you've got people with it, then for heaven's sake broadcast it, as it will give you more credability than your site does at the moment. If you haven't, then you either need to attract such individuals and sharpish, or you're going nowhere.

"Many of us are volunteers" doesn't mean anything. Have you been overseeing the successful rebuild of a Barry wreck, or polishing the end result?

 

[Phoenix - 8783]

Well as others on here have told you and along with our site (a new one is currently underway) we are just testing the water, to see if there is interest in a project to build a new Claud, and so far we have found that there certainly is.

As the website says more info on the current team will be released shortly.

Finance, marketing and fund raising are currently being arranged

The project its self will be launched in September

 

[E&W Lucas]

Well as others on here have told you and along with our site (a new one is currently underway) we are just testing the water, to see if there is interest in a project to build a new Claud, and so far we have found that there certainly is.

Interest is one thing. Converting that into a regular income stream is quite another.

If you take the building cost of a new tender loco as being approx 1.8 mil, then that equates to needing 1500 people to give £10/ month for a decade. I'd suggest that would be somewhat challenging to achieve, but that's not to say that it wouldn't be good to see this idea come to fruition. There's too few locos of this genre in preservation.

 

[Phoenix - 8783]

yeah we know it will be a challenge to turn support into cash, we have been talking to other groups such as the A1 Trust (Tornado) who has given us info and advice.

anyway we now have a brand new website: http://www.wix.com/claudhamiltonlocogro/phoenix#!

please visit it, it gives more info on the project, the team and the latest news, we've also used more of a range of photos.

 

[gazthomas]

yeah we know it will be a challenge to turn support into cash, we have been talking to other groups such as the A1 Trust (Tornado) who has given us info and advice.

anyway we now have a brand new website: http://www.wix.com/claudhamiltonlocogro/phoenix#!

please visit it, it gives more info on the project, the team and the latest news, we've also used more of a range of photos.

So won't work at all on Apple iPhones, iPads and some Android devices. Suggest you look at this and also get a proper domain name.

 

[Phoenix - 8783]

Hi, we are currently working on the website so its suitable for phones etc, hang in there

 

[Kinghambranch]

So won't work at all on Apple iPhones, iPads and some Android devices. Suggest you look at this and also get a proper domain name.

What in the name of all that is sacred is an effing "android device"? All this stuff is just geekdom. All you need is an e-mail address!

 

[gazthomas]

What in the name of all that is sacred is an effing "android device"? All this stuff is just geekdom. All you need is an e-mail address!

Remember, not everyone uses PCs these days!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)

 

[Bittern]

What in the name of all that is sacred is an effing "android device"?

Click.

It's not "geekdom". It's the 21st century.

 

[Kinghambranch]

Thank you Bittern! It's in English but I don't understand it so I'll admit defeat and pass on the 21st Century!