My Idea - Extend Huddersfield - Castleford services to York

[DB]

Why would they subsidise something that operates within their jurisdiction for perhaps 10% of the journey, and serves no intra-jurisdictional flows?

Because it would primarily be to serve people who live in their jurisdiction. Not saying that they would do it, but this would be a justification.

 

[LMS 4F]

Why would they subsidise something that operates within their jurisdiction for perhaps 10% of the journey, and serves no intra-jurisdictional flows?

Without having looked into it in any detail, I'd have thought you would be best off operating in the same path each hour as the Pontefract Baghill service uses every 4 or so hours. And then potentially binning off the Baghill service entirely, and closing that station.

Of course it's quite possible that the gap left when the Baghill service doesn't run is filled by freight or ECS moves.

The Baghill service is not used that much because it is so appalling timed, although it improved slightly not to long ago. The early train allowing an arrival into York before 9am went years ago and was one of the most used.
Again this is a service which passes through three separate Council areas and I suspect none of them want to support it but getting rid of this to put Castleford on would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I am perhaps one of the bean counters. I would like to see a direct service to York from Cas but I just can’t see it being anyone’s priority no matter how much it may be desired.
Perhaps the best chance was a few years ago when the West York’s PTE seemed to have a lot more money.

I do agree with this to be fair, my flippant use of the term cited was motivated by frustration at the apparent cost premium that railway projects seem to attract.
I'll draw a comparison with the thread about a station at Horbury Bridge, a location which will be unlikely to attract the investment required for a station in current year- had such a proposal arisen in the (as a poster wittily put it in that thread) "B&Q Decking station" era, it would probably by now have paid for itself.
Another couple of "neglected" lines in West Yorkshire (by which I mean ones which don't immediately serve the metropolis of Leeds) are Knottingley to Goole and the Pontefract Baghill line. Both these and the line in question here suffer as a result of omitting the regional de-facto capital. Unfortunately I can't see circumstances changing significantly in this regard, hence my scepticism to the idea of TPE running a service via this route long-term.
The best hope for that may be if any services diverted that way during the upgrade both (a) are able to serve Castleford, and (b) do better than expected as a result.

 

[Roast Veg]

I do agree with this to be fair, my flippant use of the term cited was motivated by frustration at the apparent cost premium that railway projects seem to attract.
I'll draw a comparison with the thread about a station at Horbury Bridge, a location which will be unlikely to attract the investment required for a station in current year- had such a proposal arisen in the (as a poster wittily put it in that thread) "B&Q Decking station" era, it would probably by now have paid for itself.
Another couple of "neglected" lines in West Yorkshire (by which I mean ones which don't immediately serve the metropolis of Leeds) are Knottingley to Goole and the Pontefract Baghill line. Both these and the line in question here suffer as a result of omitting the regional de-facto capital. Unfortunately I can't see circumstances changing significantly in this regard, hence my scepticism to the idea of TPE running a service via this route long-term.
The best hope for that may be if any services diverted that way during the upgrade both (a) are able to serve Castleford, and (b) do better than expected as a result.

It is not purely down to the whims of regional politics that services are made and un-made. If it is operationally and financially sound for TPE to serve Wakefield Kirkgate (and Castleford post platform reinstatement) then it may happen regardless of councillors' whims. Baghill and Knottingley to Goole just don't serve a large enough populace on their own.

I do have a question though - would it really be at the sacrifice of the Baghill service to run TPE via Castleford?

 

[YorksLad12]

(as a poster wittily put it in that thread) "B&Q Decking station" era

Fame at last

It is not purely down to the whims of regional politics that services are made and un-made. If it is operationally and financially sound for TPE to serve Wakefield Kirkgate (and Castleford post platform reinstatement) then it may happen regardless of councillors' whims. Baghill and Knottingley to Goole just don't serve a large enough populace on their own.

I do have a question though - would it really be at the sacrifice of the Baghill service to run TPE via Castleford?

You say that, but... I mentioned elsewhere that the Penistone Line almost closed between Huddersfield and Penistone because WYCC didn't want to pay for it. The line was mostly singled and the Clayton West branch closed to save costs. Then the Independent Republic of South Yorkshire didn't want the route redirected via Barnsley, they wanted the direct route via Stocksbridge and Deepcar retained.

If a TPE service was diverted, which stations/stakeholders would miss out and how much would it cost TPE in lost revenue or additional mileage? And would Wakefield Council make up the difference? That's why I don't think TPE would run a service permanently via Castleford. Sadly there's no rail link between Monkhill and Baghill, so you couldn't run Sheffield-York via Castleford either.

 

[Iskra]

Fame at last


You say that, but... I mentioned elsewhere that the Penistone Line almost closed between Huddersfield and Penistone because WYCC didn't want to pay for it. The line was mostly singled and the Clayton West branch closed to save costs. Then the Independent Republic of South Yorkshire didn't want the route redirected via Barnsley, they wanted the direct route via Stocksbridge and Deepcar retained.

If a TPE service was diverted, which stations/stakeholders would miss out and how much would it cost TPE in lost revenue or additional mileage? And would Wakefield Council make up the difference? That's why I don't think TPE would run a service permanently via Castleford. Sadly there's no rail link between Monkhill and Baghill, so you couldn't run Sheffield-York via Castleford either.

You could if you went York-Castleford-Wakefield Kirkgate-Barnsley-Sheffield. Whether there's any point however, is another matter.

 

[Roast Veg]

You say that, but... I mentioned elsewhere that the Penistone Line almost closed between Huddersfield and Penistone because WYCC didn't want to pay for it. The line was mostly singled and the Clayton West branch closed to save costs. Then the Independent Republic of South Yorkshire didn't want the route redirected via Barnsley, they wanted the direct route via Stocksbridge and Deepcar retained.

I believe therein lies the difference between a local operator that runs almost every service at subsidy, and an inter-regional operator that ought to be making repayments to the DfT.

 

[yorksrob]

I think a service between Castleford and York would be very useful for the area as it would bring another employment and economic centre within easy reach. It would also provide a short trip to the major transport hub that is York, and many onward travel opportunities.

The key thing is that it should also call at Normanton.